Jess (00:01.892)
Welcome back to another episode of How to 20 something with another brand new guest to talk about reciprocity in your relationships. Or in other words, the balance between giving and receiving while also letting go. I can’t wait for Melinda here to share her own stories and realizations around this topic and how she uses her learned experiences today to foster strong connections among her family, romantically and professionally and why it’s become one of her non-negotiables now.

Throughout this episode, we’re also going to highlight certain key indicators that a relationship is not giving you what you need, as well as how to start showing up in your life and your relationship so things do feel reciprocated. But I can’t stress how important of a topic this is for you to listen to, because if you’ve been listening to How to 20-something for quite some time, then you know I’ve had to deal with the battle of letting certain people go for my life and the growing pains that come with it.

And now I have a guest to share the importance of this topic with all of you. So without further ado, I’m going to introduce Melinda so we can get to all the juicy knowledge she’s here to provide us with. Melinda Ray. Melinda Ray leads her consulting company as a creative growth strategist, diving deep under the hood to get to know the ins and outs of her clients, businesses, goals, and markets. She believes we are all the same person, whether we’re at work or hanging out with friends.

Her motto, the power is in the pivot, has become a core principle in both her personal and professional life. Melinda knows that how you show up in one area is how you show up everywhere. Today, she’s here to talk about the importance of reciprocity in all your relationships and how it impacts your wellbeing, growth, and sense of peace. A thought leader with a knack for finding inspiration, Melinda is a seasoned speaker, panelist, marketer, and sales workshop facilitator, supporting various events throughout the year.

She captivates audiences with her warmth, humor, and candid insights. Fun fact, secretly, Melinda always wanted to be famous. From Velora the barfly doing weekly reviews on the morning radio show to her current role as a dynamic consultant and speaker, she’s never shied away from the spotlight. Whether she’s dazzling a boardroom or belting out her favorite tunes at karaoke, Melinda knows how to make an impression and she loves people. Hi, Melinda, welcome to How to 20 something.

Melinda Rae (02:24.253)
Thank you for having me, Jess. I’m so excited to be here. There’s no place else I’d rather be than right here, right now.

Jess (02:31.044)
I’m glad you’re here too. And before we get to your story of how you got into the importance of this episode, I want to know what is reciprocity in relationships mean to you and why is it so important for someone to develop?

Melinda Rae (02:48.455)
Well, I don’t even know that I knew the word reciprocity until about six years ago. Doesn’t mean I didn’t hear it, but I didn’t understand it. didn’t know that.

that was something to really focus on in relationships. just was going through life, me mostly giving things away and not necessarily always receiving. And when I learned, well, I did a leadership training in 2018 and I started really focusing in all of my relationships from my marriage to my kids, to my business, to my friends. And I wrote everything out and…

And when I started writing out what I wanted out, like what I wanted the relationship to be like, I realized a lot of it was, it was, was taking and not, was, was not a good, it was not a reciprocity relationship. And I found myself sort of dead inside. I had lost who I was and didn’t, I, I had lost who I was. And so I really had to revamp. And then I learned that that started with me and that I can make any change as long as I started making the changes.

Jess (03:55.14)
So would you define it as basically what you put into your relationship is also what you want to get out of it?

Melinda Rae (04:02.227)
yeah, how you show up is how you want them to show up as well. Yes, you have to put forth the effort and also have the hard communication questions and talking. If I care about somebody, I have to have a conversation. I just had a business meeting with a client that we need to pivot because some things need to change. And I said, but I need you to be present when we meet.

and the phone rings and you look over here, I’m like, so I’m not even sure you’re hearing what I’m saying. So it’s not gonna work unless we start to communicate. And it was very uncomfortable. It wasn’t an easy thing to say. And I even said, I just said it. This isn’t very comfortable for me to say, but I need to say it because for us to have a successful relationship and partnership, we need to have this.

Jess (04:54.084)
Yeah, I have this conversation, not literally, but with clients. I remind them that this is a partnership and you need to do the work too. I am here. I’m going to show up and give 110%. But if you’re not me, I’ll meet you where you’re at and give you the 110 % that you need in that moment. But if you’re not even there, if you’re not even willing to do that, then I can’t help you. You can’t help those who don’t want to be helped.

Melinda Rae (05:07.378)
Yeah.

Melinda Rae (05:17.414)
Right.

Jess (05:22.156)
It does get frustrating. It’s heartbreaking on my side of things. So you can only imagine if we were to break down the different types of relationships and how that can surface. Do you think it shows up differently based off of different relationships you may have with someone, whether that’s friendship, romantics, or family, or coworkers, work-related, just every type of relationship you can think of?

Melinda Rae (05:44.275)
Yeah, I do. think it does. I mean, there’s different things you have. I I got divorced in 2018, so I don’t have him anymore. So when you were taking, I’m going to answer your question, but I want to say I have shed a lot of people from my life. And it’s because I have set non-negotiables. So, and I wrote them out for the different, and one of them is do what you say you’re going to do when you say you’re going to do it. My child, both my kids have to be that way.

Dan gets to be that way and he does and they are that way. And if it’s not, then I have a conversation. So you had asked how they might be different per se from my daughter to my best friend, to my romantic partner. I mean, the expectation is different. know, Dan and I are building a life together. We might have some shared responsibilities around the house or things, which is very different, but it’s not that different than my daughter or my son when they’re home.

You know, I still expect them to do things. don’t, it’s not my job just to wait on them. But as opposed to my mom, you know, my mom is one of my closest people in my life. And yet I’ve had to renegotiate with my mom because she was one of the people I used to give to, you know, so I’ve had to say, no, I don’t do that anymore. And that isn’t always that easy to do. And they don’t always receive it very well. So it depends on, it depends on how they receive it.

what I choose to do, knowing that I always have the choice to be with or not be with somebody or in relationship with them.

Jess (07:22.166)
And I think it comes down to two things, boundaries and communication. And they say the people who hate or get upset around the boundaries you’re setting are the people who are disrespecting the boundaries in the first place. So it, and then the communication side of things is having that conversation or even laying out your expectations of I’m picturing this, are we on the same page? And sometimes you’re not, and you need to have that conversation of, okay, how do we get on the same page?

Melinda Rae (07:44.839)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jess (07:51.704)
What happens? What do you have to do? What do I have to do? And then converse.

Melinda Rae (07:56.849)
Yeah, and you have to come from your heart, right? I I have to come from a place of love and from my heart and not a blaming place either. I sometimes it’s a, realize I’m doing this, you know, or something, having that conversation. I was going to say, before I started dating Dan, I had written out my non-negotiables. And so when we got together, I asked him to do that. And then when I looked at them, I was like, we’re not gonna have any problems. I mean, we’re gonna have problems, but I mean, we’re not gonna have problems with this, like with this non-negotiable.

And about a year, a little over a year later, I went back and looked at them because I’m like, are we still, I wonder if we’re still on target, like if we’re still staying in each other, what we promised each other and we are. And so that’s just really gratifying. know, yes, there was a lot of heartache and losing people in my life and friends and, you know, and clients and all kinds of things. But when you have…

open, honest, real, loving conversations and communication. And you both want the same vision, right? So we both want the same thing. My kids and I have the same type. We have the same conversations with them and how I want us to have our relationship today. And my daughter’s 22, right? So it’s very, very different than it was in the past, but just staying true to who you are and also holding others accountable to relationship with you.

Jess (09:23.63)
Can you share some of your non-negotiables if it’s not too personal so that the audience has an idea of what that might look like?

Melinda Rae (09:27.602)
Cool.

Melinda Rae (09:31.313)
Yeah, okay, let me see, I have them in my phone. I don’t know where they are right this second. I, well, I just said one, do what you say you’re gonna do, when you say you’re gonna do it. That’s huge, right? Listen, so pause, to really listen to each other. I mean, if my romantic one, I I wrote down no abuse.

But it’s a big one, verbal manipulation, any of that kind of thing is not allowed. And that’s true for clients for me as well. No, I I deselected one because of the way he treated me and he wouldn’t change. It’s another non-negotiable. Well, all the things, open, honest conversation. All the things isn’t really descriptive. So let me get a little bit better and descriptive. I would say…

Do what you say you’re gonna do, show up with love. Well, laugh, have fun, sense of humor. That’s actually one of the things for me and gets real about things. Are those enough? I know there’s more. I know there’s another non-negotiable somewhere I can’t think of.

Jess (10:41.058)
think it’s a good start to get the audience’s brain going of what theirs might look like. I mean, the ones you were saying are what mine would look like as well. think a lot of people could relate to that of you want someone that’s reliable, that’s true to their word. For me, that also looks like being punctual. And on times you’re late, you’re prioritizing me in the same way I’m prioritizing you. the no verbal emotion, no any type of abuse, I think is.

for everyone, hopefully. But it’s the little things. And I think it’s important to have these things written down and to be for two reasons. One, so that you actually have an idea of what is important to you and that you’re not letting anyone let something slide. Like your non-negotiables are for you and it’s to protect you, to protect your peace, your energy, your everything. And then the other side of that is writing them down.

Melinda Rae (11:10.78)
Yes. Yes.

Jess (11:38.552)
as you said, to be able to go back and reflect on them. Are the relationships that are in my life that are the most important to me reaching these, not hitting these non-negotiables, are they checking off the boxes I need them to check off and has anything changed? Do I need to add to it? Is one of them like, okay, this isn’t that bad of thing anymore, I can take it away and just depends on where you’re at in your own healing journey, your own personal growth journey, your own experiences and going from there. So I love that you’ve done that.

and look back on it.

Melinda Rae (12:09.691)
yeah, and I also really believe in having a vision, you know for your life and also For your relationships, you know, like I said fun, know I want to have fun and do one of the signs of maybe not being in a relationship that’s with Reciprocity is you feel drained after you leave them You’re not you I want to be I want to leave like my cup was full you know that I had spent great time and it was creative and fun and interesting and

And all of those things, and I mean, and I love people. So to leave somebody and be drained from me, I mean, I’m an extrovert, so they do, but I need my time alone, setting my intentions of my, I look at it every day. Every morning, I have committed that I spend 20 minutes in silence and then do an inventory of, this really where I wanna spend my time? Is this with whom I wanna spend my time? And how do I feel when I leave them? And how did I feel at the end of the day? So.

I think it’s really important because I think those things start to creep in and you don’t notice. know, like that abuse comment, of course, I don’t want anybody to be abused. And sometimes you’re not even aware it’s happening. you know, it can be tricky, it can. And so to check in, then I know that I’m good and I’m okay.

Jess (13:31.502)
Yeah, another example that came into my mind of a non-negotiable would be, I’m thinking of my best friend, and I know one of hers romantically is they have to love to travel. That is a non-negotiable, and it’s because she loves to travel, whereas for me, I want my future partner to want to travel, to like to travel, but it’s not something that…

They have to plan a big trip every single year kind of thing. It’s more of a, it’s nice, we want to get away. It’s a little more casual. And for her, I know that there has to be a big trip every single year.

Melinda Rae (14:06.035)
Well, and my, one of my non-negotiables, which was interesting for the romantic was family centric. And cause family is very important to me. And that was one of Dan’s, but that’s not true for everybody. You know, not everybody, not every, that may not be their, their focus in their life. It may be completely different. And was also, they’re coming back to me as we’re talking was also, he wrote it, I wrote it a little differently, but he wrote that we honor and respect each other’s outside hobbies and things that we’re interested in. So.

It’s not just me and him all the time. You know, we go do our own things and there’s never an issue with that where there’s been relationships in the past where there is and there’s really no reason for it. know, having your own life is very, very important and giving and taking and loving and supporting the things that he loves and him supporting the things that I love, you know. And here’s the other thing is the other one that my sister actually kind of gave this one to me. said,

I want him to allow me to be myself. And my sister said, no, you want him to want you to shine. And I was like, I love that, Terry. You know what I That’s so great. Because it’s true. I want him to shine. I want my friends to shine. I I have amazing people in my life. I want them to all do great things and enjoy their relationships and whatever it is they enjoy. If it’s sitting outside by yourself, go enjoy it. It doesn’t matter whatever it is.

Jess (15:32.236)
It’s funny you say that because as a recording this, I’m coming off of my sister’s Bachelorette trip. And one of the girls mentioned I had all the girls send in a video saying something to my sister. And one of the girls said my sister’s fiance brings out the goofy side of her. And then she kind of reset it. It’s like, well, you’re already goofy, but he makes it so that it’s OK and it’s well accepted and that you thrive in the goofiness or something along the lines of.

just of what you were saying of her weirdness, her quirks, and is it fully accepted if not encouraged? And that’s what you want. You don’t want someone to feel like they’re dimming your light or that you have to shrink down and be small. That you want someone that’s gonna foster your own growth and wanna build the stage for you to stand on as an analogy.

Melinda Rae (16:22.023)
Yes. No, yes, absolutely. You do. And it’s okay to fall in love with the quirkiness. I mean, I have them, I’m quirky. You know, there’s lots of things. And it’s very freeing to be in this space then from where I used to put myself, to be where this is me. This is how I’m going to be. And if you don’t like it, don’t hang out. You know, like go hang out somewhere else. But what I’m finding actually, the more and more I step into this space,

the more and more really amazing people I attract, you know, that come around or that are wanting to have a conversation or to do something together. And that’s very freeing.

Jess (17:01.602)
Yeah, a lesson I’ve had to learn, I’d say this year, is something my coaches helped me with, and it’s the, are you for? The answer is not everyone. And that’s okay. Be yourself. Don’t try to fit yourself into the mold of someone else. Don’t try to impress someone else for their benefit. It’s your life. At the end of the day, it’s you. It’s you against the world. You want someone that’s gonna compliment that.

Melinda Rae (17:05.811)
Thank you.

Melinda Rae (17:22.993)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jess (17:26.158)
whether that’s amongst your friendships or your business relationships or your romantic relationships, family, whatever it may be, it all matters. Relationships, relationship health is so important and I think a lot of people take it for granted. So we want to stress that it’s important, it can make your life so much better and it can also cause a lot of stress and unhappiness in your life.

Melinda Rae (17:48.955)
It can, and you don’t have to have a million friends either. You can have just some, you know, it doesn’t, and you can have people in your life for different reasons. I mean, I have acquaintance friends that I just think are super fun to hang out with, but we don’t get real deep into any conversation, but we have a blast. You know, I just laugh and then I go on my way. And then other friends that, I mean, I have one really, really close friend that she knows everything about me, right? Like there’s,

I don’t even have to explain anything. just call and say that this happened, you know, and she’s like right there. They don’t all have to be the same. In fact, it would be for me, it would be boring. You know, it’s nice to have different, I have friends that ground me because I get very excited and we’ll be up here. And so they’ll, they’re just a very calming energy. I’m like, I need a little Ashley time. You know, like I need a little so, and, date my Dan grounds me.

It’s been, he grounds me. He helps keep me focused and grounded and more successful actually. And that isn’t why I started dating him, you but he’s really helped me. He calls me out on the stuff that I’m not doing, that I, you know, they should be doing or could be doing. don’t like shitting, but could be, could be doing. So.

Jess (19:06.862)
So you’ve mentioned a couple pieces of your story, but I know a large part of your story is why you felt this would be a good episode for you to come talk about. Can you come share how you learned the lessons behind the importance of having reciprocal relationships and maybe some lessons that stood out that the 20-somethings listening can learn from ahead of time?

Melinda Rae (19:31.027)
Yeah, I gotta say the 20 somethings are pretty amazing because I find I really really think that and as I said before my daughter is 22 but she she actually was probably my first teacher when when she was first born they brought her to me and I was like, snap, you’re gonna teach me things like she was an infant but she’s always stayed true to who she is. You know, she’s never worn makeup. She never will. She doesn’t want to you know, she’s not

She doesn’t apologize. And not everybody liked her. You know, not everybody liked her. And she’s like, well, they don’t like me. Okay, fine. They don’t like me. I’m like, I was not like that. You know, I wanted to be sure people liked me. And I would even say I liked certain music when I didn’t, you know, like, I don’t even know why I that is just silly. But I mean, it has taken me years. Like I said, in the very beginning, I didn’t even know what the word reciprocity meant, or would I have ever even used it? No, I wouldn’t have until six years ago.

And I have gone through lots of therapy and was having lots of questions asked. And of course, that healer was asking me questions. And what she finally said was, it sounds like what you’re looking for is a relationship with reciprocity. And I was like, I don’t even know what that means. You sometimes we can be so blind to things that are right in front of us. And so I just started digging in and then I started paying attention to the relationships in my life. And then I noticed, I’m like, you know,

that person is never there for me. You know what mean? Like I give and I go, but they didn’t ask me one time, really, you know, when you get divorced, I don’t, don’t get divorced. It’s the worst thing in the world. But the, the people that didn’t reach out at all, but would call and they needed something or something that I’m like, you do know I’m going through like a huge, never a question, never just paying attention to that. Those were hurtful. Cause you think these, you think that those people are your friends, but really what, what, what I failed to see

is I wasn’t my friend, right? I was just giving away, I wasn’t being healthy in relationship with myself. I was looking for it everywhere else outside. And that is very painful. And then one day I woke up and I was like, but I can change this. You you don’t have a problem if it’s something you can change. And then to be completely frank, I got scared because now I had to make all the choices. And now I was really responsible and I couldn’t be mad at somebody else.

Melinda Rae (21:58.715)
So in to not get into too much detail, it’s been very, my whole word always was freedom and the freedom to be myself and the freedom to create what I wanted in life came from my choices for me and who I surrounded myself with. And I would say the biggest life lesson was not doing that sooner, not seeing it and not asking myself those questions and really

Jess (22:20.268)
and it’s super.

Melinda Rae (22:28.463)
It started with me meditating in the morning and being quiet and then going to my leadership training and then them asking me questions too. I I had multiple different places I went. It wasn’t just therapy. I really uncovered every stone and I’m so grateful I did because it’s worth it. Did I answer your question? Sorry about that. Okay.

Jess (22:29.636)
you

Jess (22:48.718)
I love, yeah, yes. I love the part that you mentioned when you were going through your divorce. You took note of the people who reached out and then those who called when they needed something, but they weren’t actually, they weren’t asking about how you were doing, anything about you. It was what could you do for them? And that’s something I had to learn last year when I had,

my first big speaking opportunity and I was going through a lot of friendship changes and adjustments and while the friendship changes and adjustments are happening, I fell into depression and no one reached out. I didn’t do any reaching out either, but I was the one struggling on the floor of my bedroom. Fast forward a couple months when I was out of the depression and I had that speaking event, this amazing opportunity. I didn’t expect these people who

also like didn’t even reach out the whole summer. I didn’t expect them to buy a ticket for it, but I did at least hope slash expect them to text me like this is so cool. Congratulations. How did it go? Something or do you want to celebrate after? Do you want to go get dinner? And when that didn’t happen, I was ready to just release them. I like, I don’t need that. It’s not that they were coming to me and needing things from me, but it was the I needed you.

Melinda Rae (23:57.948)
Yeah.

Jess (24:13.666)
and you were gone. And the people that did show up, it meant so much. The people that did text me, it stood out even more from the people that didn’t. And I know you don’t want to focus on the who didn’t, focus on who’s in the room, not who’s not in the room. But when I was going, when you’re going through a situation and an experience like I did, you do take note. You take note of both sides. And it doesn’t discount like the people in the room. It’s like, I love you, I appreciate you. This is

Melinda Rae (24:37.198)
yeah. yeah.

Jess (24:43.488)
amazing, this means the world, and these people didn’t do anything. And it’s okay to acknowledge that they didn’t. In fact, it’s healthy because from that point on, I started to release that relationship of what I kept hoping it would return to. And now I feel a lot more free and I have a lot more supportive people in my corner that do want to cheer me on and are there in a moment’s notice and do check in on me.

Melinda Rae (25:11.825)
Yeah. And I was going to say one thing that I also know to be true is you do, we do get to ask for support when needed. So sometimes if I have a person in my life that I care for that’s struggling with something, I’ll say, what can I do to support you? Right? Because, and sometimes they don’t even know, but it’s a really great question. Cause when somebody does that to me, then I have to say, what

what it’s kind of like, what could I do to make this a little bit better? And they just just offered to support me. What do I need? I just need you to listen to this for a little better. You can verbalize it and it helps that healing process happen and a connection. And I also really like the word support better than what you know, what do you need? Because what do you need? Feels like you’re not capable or you couldn’t possibly do it and support just feels more supportive. So

Those relationships are hard and you know, and I’m thinking about, the 20 somethings, know, I mean, I’m in a different stage of life. I’m older and, but they still pertain. You know, we still have the same things. We just, I just didn’t have certain things that you guys have right now and it’s a different world and it’s a different generation. And I think too,

This is one that I think too, when I started dating and I was doing the apps, I said to myself, these are real people on the other side of this app. I am going to treat them that way. And, you know, if I don’t want to go out with them, I’ll tell them, but nicely, you know, but I’m not just going to ghost them. just think those are really important things in relationships too. You don’t have to talk to everybody. You can say, thank you. Or, you know, like I met you and you were nice, but I don’t see romantic anything happening.

And it’s funny because when I got with Dan, he was the same way. know, he was, he didn’t, he didn’t do that. And so I think that in social media too, which could be a whole different topic, but there’s still, it’s still communication. It’s still, you have to remember those are real people on the other side of that like, or that not like, or whatever they’re putting out there. And just how you treat them is how you’ll end up being treated too. So.

Melinda Rae (27:32.637)
you do unto others as you you want done to you, right? That’s what, but that’s really what it is. I mean, it’s not complicated. It’s not really rocket science. It’s, but it is getting clear. I love my non-negotiables. It is getting clear on what it is you want. And maybe I want a lot more friends than somebody else who cares, right? It’s what makes you happy. It’s what your one friend likes to travel a ton. You know, you, you don’t care as much, but

You know, there’s another thing is I wanted somebody that wanted to go do things with me. I wanted a companion that wanted to do, I like to go do things and I’m very social. And so is he and has a great sense of humor. And all he does is make fun of me. Like, and I laugh all the time because it’s really funny to me, because it’s really funny to me. So not too serious, you know, but not to those things.

Jess (28:23.042)
Yeah, yeah. Well, on the topic of reciprocity, because that’s what we’re here for, we’ve kind of given some hints on how you can start to create this within your own relationships. for I feel that this stays true or holds true more so for my people pleasers that are the ones that give way more than they receive. So how can someone start to change that for themselves, knowing that there is going to be that sense of guilt that

Melinda Rae (28:29.235)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (28:52.366)
comes with it.

Melinda Rae (28:55.207)
I kind of have answered it because I am a was a people pleaser. I don’t identify as one anymore, but getting very clear on what you want your relationship to be like and only doing things that put you in that type of relationship. There’s it’s like everything, everything we do, you know how I want my business to be. I only do the things that are in that. So I would say and be really like give yourself some compassion. You’re not going to be perfect. You can always go back and say,

I’m just, hey, Jess, know, like, I’m sorry, actually, I need to renegotiate that because that isn’t really how I want us to show up as friends. So have a conversation and just say, I know I did, but I really, I’m working hard not to do that anymore. You know, and so, or like, yeah, I mean, I think it’s really that simple. It’s really creating a vision and then doing the activities that get you there and showing up again with love and.

I also really believe in vulnerability and authenticity. And so to have friendships, any relationship I have, I have to be vulnerable and let them know I care about them. And maybe they don’t care about me as much as I care about, I don’t know. now, if it’s a new relationship, right? But to be vulnerable and let people know how you feel.

Yeah.

Jess (30:13.54)
So I think where the waters start to get muddy under this topic is when you balance the idea of giving without expecting something in return and not wanting to feed into relationship that doesn’t feel like it’s being reciprocated. you’re giving, because you want to give, you want to show up for your friends or for whatever relationship that’s coming to mind for you right now. You want to be able to give to them without being like, I’m going to give to you so you can give to me in return. That’s not how that works.

Melinda Rae (30:28.849)
Yeah, you want to explore. Yeah. Yeah.

Jess (30:42.98)
but then it’s also you don’t wanna keep giving and then not have anything come back. How does someone navigate that kind of inner turmoil?

Melinda Rae (30:51.441)
Yeah, and you don’t want to keep score. Like I did this and you didn’t do this. If you don’t, because it’s not about keeping score. So honestly, that’s a kind of a hard, it’s not a hard answer. It’s a hard answer to take. I stop being around them. I, or I say,

I feel very taken advantage of, you know, I say, and here is why, here’s what happened that has made me feel that way. And do you see that? And if you know, then they get to respond, they, you know, I can’t change them. And they can say, yes, I do. And I’ll, know, I understand and I’ll make some changes. Or if they don’t, and they keep doing it, then I don’t spend as much time with them and see how it goes. I mean, that’s really the

All you can change is yourself and you can speak your truth to somebody and hope or set the intention that they’ll hear you and see you. Because if they don’t hear you and see you as you’re telling them, then they’re not really hearing and seeing you. And that’s the, that’s the hard, that’s the hurtful part that, can happen that. but I think the way you do have some control is in that communication and not blaming them.

you know, don’t point a finger, but say, is, this is, this is what I want. I want, like, I want a friendship with you in this way. I want us, I mean, I don’t, I don’t want to just listen to you talk the whole time, nor do you want to listen to me talk the whole time. You know, like I want us to have a conversation, whatever it is, like whatever it is that you feel like you’re, it is hard though. I mean, I, I’ve been a people pleaser and sometimes I have to re, I have to have my mantras in my head where I say, no, stop.

You know, like they don’t even, they’re not even asking for that. Sometimes it’s you’re doing it. It’s not even the other person. So you’re like, stop it. They’re not even asking for that. Take care of yourself so that you can show up as a true friend and a whole, you are a whole and complete, but feeling whole and complete and not like you’re dead inside. That other guide for me always too is how I feel when I leave them, you know, and how I feel. And so it is that hard one of I…

Melinda Rae (32:58.373)
And I don’t just cut people out of my life all the time. I would have conversations and do all the things. But if it got that way, yeah, I cut them out of my life. Yeah.

Jess (33:07.714)
What’s a good way to start this kind of conversation? So let’s say you’re a creative scenario. Let’s say you’re you and your best friend. I guess maybe maybe not best friend. You and a friend are hanging out a lot and you just feel like you’re giving way more than what your friend is putting into the zip or pouring back into you. And it’s time for you to bring this up so that things can change. What is your go to?

Melinda Rae (33:10.704)
Good.

Jess (33:36.118)
Approach into this conversation because I know we all hate the we need to talk text doesn’t matter who you are doesn’t matter What relationship it is, but it’s still You do need to talk you do need to have a conversation. So what is your what is your segue into that?

Melinda Rae (33:52.475)
I’m gonna I’ll get I’m gonna do that but I think what I do now that I didn’t do before was I have conversations with my friends before we get there with anybody in relationship with I have them before so the reason why I did it backwards is because I don’t really wouldn’t have a we need to talk I mean I would like I would with Dan I would say like I got to talk to you about something but I can usually frame it he’s just the easiest one for me to talk about

I mean, I do have other people, but he’s just the easiest one. can frame it where I say, well, I take some time first. And I kind of see like, why am I really feeling this way? What’s my part in it? I always ask, what’s my part in it first? Can I shift it by my way of being and how I show up first? And then I’ll try that. And then if that doesn’t work, then I say, I’m really struggling with something and I need to talk with you. I’ll say that, right? But well, my best friend,

her name is Caroline, she and I talk about these things, right? So lots of my friends, talk about them. when, when there might be some kind of conflict, because there’s always something at some point, or something, you know, some, may not be that hurtful, maybe it’s just a little hurtful. Then I just say, I need to talk to you about, about this, whatever it is that happened about, you know, I don’t know, you didn’t call me, but that’s not it. I don’t even know what that matter about anything. So I would say that

If I had to talk to somebody, well, I told you I had to do it with a client today. I got direct. I kind. I sat in my car before I went in and got grounded because I was a little nervous because it’s uncomfortable. And then I looked at him and I said, I really don’t like having conversations like this, but it’s necessary. And then I sp-

I spoke my piece and I said, you know, what’s your piece? And then we came to an agreement and actually we’re good, look really good. And it wasn’t that bad. You know what mean? It’s not as ever as bad as you think it’s going to be. You know, just, it just isn’t you worst case scenario. So I think going into it that I’ve chosen to be around this person for a reason. So I’m going to look at the bright side and see that they, they will honor and respect what it is I’m saying and my, and feel seen and heard.

Jess (36:16.118)
Yeah.

Melinda Rae (36:16.199)
And you know, just I don’t need everybody to see and hear me. I don’t need everybody to see and hear me. I mean, there’s some people that are closer and some that aren’t. mean, some I might just let it go and just have them be my fun friend. That’s it, you know, so.

Jess (36:27.65)
Yeah, well I think the biggest thing is wanting to feel seen and heard and validated in any relationship. And it’s doing the same for the other person. And I think with this, at least I know I’m guilty of this. I wouldn’t say, maybe guilty is not the right word, but I do this a lot, so probably guilty. But if I’m upset with someone, I know that it’s a me thing. And I recognize that it’s a me thing. That this person is doing something

unbeknownst to them that it’s bothering me, but it is bothering me. And I’m the one that has to bring it up. And I always preface it with, I know this is not you. I know your intentions are good. This is the way it’s being received, though. And then we come to a what can we do about it so that I’m not receiving it in this way anymore.

Melinda Rae (37:18.035)
Right, right, right. And then sometimes they come back to you and say, have, okay, I’m kind of glad you’re bringing this up because I have this, and then being willing to take the feedback, you know, or, because it’s not always easy to hear something, you know, I mean, that’s something else I usually say, are you open to some feedback? Like, because they might say, no, I’m really not. And then like, maybe in an hour, because right now I’m not in the mood for any feedback.

you know, and actually that’s another thing I do is the pause. If there’s an argument in, there, in usually that’s because somebody’s feeling taken advantage of or not, you know, some reason people, that’s why there’s an argument. I’ve implemented, I’m like, we need to pause. And that doesn’t mean leave each other, but like, let’s, let’s separate for a little while and then come back and calm down and then talk about it reasonably. And that works really, really well.

Not a I’m leaving, know, not a yelling, but just like, I need a pause, you know, like that, because yelling and telling you’re leaving is is puts cracks in a foundation of any relationship, it just doesn’t keep it solid.

Jess (38:29.89)
Yeah, I want to add to what you just said, too, giving feedback and then being open to receiving is different than when you’re bringing up something that’s bothering you and the other person responds with what’s been bothering them. So they don’t actually take it one conversation at a time. And that goes back to just effectively communicating, stay on topic for what it is. And then if that other person feels the need to bring something else up,

after you have come to a conclusion of what is initially being brought up, then you can move it over. But if they’re coming back as a retaliation of, you do this, then that’s not a healthy relationship. We’re just going to call it a spade. It’s a spade a spade. So call it for what it is and get yourself out of that or find a resource that’s going to help you guys reach that level so that you can effectively communicate. Because the basis, the foundation of any

good relationship, doesn’t matter what type of relationship it is, is healthy communication. You need it.

Melinda Rae (39:32.967)
Yeah, yeah, you do. And good quality time together. But yes, communication is the most important, really. And not all relationships are equal. So some, you would go to therapy together if you needed to, or you would, yeah, you would find some kind of resource. It depends on how important it is to both of you. Yeah.

Jess (39:37.987)
Yes.

Jess (39:52.472)
Yeah. And what type of relationship it is, as you were saying, what would you say are potential consequences of staying in relationships that lack the reciprocity that you want for yourself?

Melinda Rae (40:04.167)
Well, I described my divorce, felt I truly was dead inside. It wasn’t me. My mom said, we lost you. You weren’t you anymore. And then I had another one that was even worse. And my blood pressure was super high. I was walking on eggshells. It was not healthy. My neighbors knew that it was not healthy. I don’t mean to say.

the you lose your I lost myself. I’m just gonna speak what happened to me. I lost myself, self esteem, my value, my self worth went down. I didn’t think I was worthy. I questioned my own thoughts. And because of being gaslit, right? I questioned if if

That did too happen and then they would make I would not believe it anymore so that’s all those are really awful things actually and it shows up and goes through your whole life and Yeah, what are all the things I mean self-conscious self your self-worth If I was smart enough, you know if I really had a brain anymore because I really questioned so that kind of

That’s serious stuff. That’s your quality of your life. That’s your joy. That’s your peace. That’s your happiness. That’s your connection. Because if I didn’t feel like I was worthy of connection, I wasn’t showing up wanting to connect. And so that’s not, and now I do. And so you’re not, if I show up like, you’re gonna, I don’t trust you and all the things that you feel that way.

Melinda Rae (41:46.385)
I hope that makes sense the way I just said that because there’s a lot, there’s still emotion. Yeah. And there’s still emotion that comes up for me because I allowed myself to stay there. And that, that is a non-negotiable for me in relationship with me. That will not happen again. And I’ve also, I have very good friends that

Jess (41:49.077)
It does.

Melinda Rae (42:10.723)
I have said, if you see this and anything that I need you to tell me, I will not be mad at you. I may not like it at first, but I promise, you know, I set up so that they can be honest with me and tell me. And I had some that did during that other one, the one I was just describing that pulled me aside and said, this is not good for you. And I was like, you don’t think so? Said no. And I was like, so even finding the people that you really

can trust, you know, and then not that long from there I was done with him. But finding the people that you can trust and then telling them how to support you. You know, like that, that was me saying this is what I need because I’m rose colored glasses and it may take me a while to see it. So tell me if you see it and then I’ll still use my own radar, you know, I’ll still do that. But I would say

Get your tribe. You know, mean, like really find your tribe and make sure that you communicate before you hit a place where there’s a problem because then it’s easier to talk with them.

Jess (43:12.334)
Yeah, this topic, this conversation that we’re having right now reminds me of when I broke up with my ex. I was still in my full-time corporate job and I was the same thing. I questioned my self-worth. I questioned my value. I questioned the potential of having a thriving business because he didn’t believe in me. was so many things and hold on, getting a phone call. Okay.

Melinda Rae (43:37.415)
Yeah.

Jess (43:39.928)
Restarting and What happened was the day after I broke up with him I broke up with him I think it was on a Tuesday so I go into the office on Wednesday and One of my co-workers brought a breakup coffee because she knew it was happening. Everyone knew it was happening I was talking about it all of Tuesday. I was like breaking up with him tonight finally done and that whole day I came to life and I remember saying I feel like I have my personality back and it’s because

I felt so down for so long being with the person that I was not supposed to be with that I lost a part of myself as you were saying. And then once it was done, it was like, I was goofy. I was playful. I was happy again. And all it took was removing him from my life. It was not an easy decision. I didn’t make it on a whim. It was well thought out. I did a lot of meditating on it. But it’s true. It goes to show you how much someone can take from you that

Melinda Rae (44:15.453)
Right.

Jess (44:38.892)
You’re not even realizing that you’re giving and it is in terms of your personality. It’s your own self thoughts, your beliefs, what you’re saying to yourself as a result of the impact someone else is having on you. It’s not just favor for favor, dollar for dollar, love for love. It’s so much more than that. So much that goes beyond that that I actually I would love for you to talk about. I don’t want to say ROI, but it really is your return on investment when it comes to reciprocity because it’s not always eye for eye.

Melinda Rae (44:51.506)
Right.

Jess (45:08.81)
It doesn’t always what you give you get back in the exact same way. So what can that look like?

Melinda Rae (45:16.647)
That’s interesting way to put it because it’s funny, I was thinking a little bit as you were talking about how grateful I am. And you my life isn’t perfect, but it’s a good life. Like it’s a good life. And how grateful I am to have.

Melinda Rae (45:36.083)
Dan, my friends, my kids. I 2018, my relationship with my kids, I had rated them and I had them down at fours. Now they’re like, I don’t know, nine? I mean, nothing’s, I could say a 10, but they’re great. They’re great. I just lost track of your question. ROI. The…

I know to say it Yeah, we went to a wedding this weekend and her story was very similar to the way that I felt about romantic relationships And the way she described him was he stands by her all the time You know, like he’s right there. So that is huge ROI for me I mean, I’ll I’ll start crying just in gratitude of our simple mundane life that I love You know cuz life is in the mundane and if I’m happy there

I can be happy anywhere. And so the investment in myself, and I said this earlier, I’ve done a lot of, a lot of investing in myself really is well worth how I get to show up in my life and how rich my relationships are and fun. And there are serious conversations, but they’re not there. We have, we mostly have fun. You know, I mean, it’s mostly, it’s not about everything. Everything I say with him is

We’ll figure that out. Let’s not worry about it. You know what Like it’ll, it’s not, that’s not that important or, some, sometimes, sometimes, well, this is not the ROI question. I go off on tangent sometimes. I’m sorry. I think it’s totally worth the ROI. I would spend all kinds of time and energy on cultivating healthy relationships, full of reciprocity, love and compassion and laughter. I think it’s probably one of the most important things.

And it is important in work too, when I choose clients to work with, I look for the same qualities. I look for them, I mean, more professional setting, but lots of my clients have become friends, right? It happens, or past clients that are no longer my clients are friends of mine. And a lot of them checked in on me through my divorce. So, the ROI is huge. I can’t, we asked that question, it’s making me kind of go, I can’t think of something that’s more important.

Melinda Rae (47:56.369)
I mean, besides health, know, like taking care of yourself and yourself. I think relationships, I mean, everybody asks me what is my favorite thing in life. It’s people, it’s relationships, for me. You know, it may not be for everybody. Some people say they hate people. I just think they’re being funny. I can’t imagine it. So I think the R.I. is huge.

Jess (47:57.113)
Mm.

Jess (48:15.608)
I think it’s also knowing that an ROI relates when it’s from relationship to relationship, it relates to your love language and that could show up in any type of relationship. So it’s are you investing in their love language and are they investing back in yours? Not investing in the way that they want to be loved, but in the way that you want to be loved or heard or accepted or validated. Insert any word you want based off of the relationship that you’re thinking of. But it’s

It’s in every relationship. You have a certain love language in every single relationship that you encounter in your entire life. And it’s knowing that that’s reciprocity.

Melinda Rae (48:56.563)
Mm-hmm, it is, it’s very important. It’s very important. Do I have a word?

Jess (49:00.356)
Do you have, yeah, do you have, what?

Melinda Rae (49:05.245)
Go ahead, I didn’t hear you. I thought you said that you wanted me to do a word, so I just didn’t understand.

Jess (49:06.786)
No, you go.

Jess (49:11.3)
no. Do you have any final pieces of advice or words of wisdom to share with the 20 something listening when it comes to developing reciprocity in their relationships?

Melinda Rae (49:24.851)
feel like we’ve said most of it, but specifically for 20-somethings, I would say that my key one and just knowing my daughter too is the communication factor before there’s a problem to open up what…

what you’re looking for. it depends on the relationship, but I have them with my friends too. say this, I mean, I say this is what I’m looking for. if I mean, is what I, I don’t say this is what I expect in my friendship, but I sort of say that as I’m having a conversation with them, it’s more conversational. And I also do it, I would also say, so I would say communication, also say, and you show up that way.

And don’t over give, but be one that shows up as a giver, right? And not just a taker. Because you will always need some support. That part will come naturally. It’s the giving that doesn’t always come naturally. And then set your vision. It’s all the stuff I said before. getting really real with what’s yours and owning yours first before you talk to the other person. Because I found that

Yeah, well, I found that if I say, hey, I was triggered and I showed up like this and so I own that that’s that’s for me to take care of. And this was hard for me to stomach for whatever reason. You know, that way it’s not you did this and I was triggered. It’s just a little bit because I was and that’s not that’s not easy to deal with. So.

But I would say communication. And I say that with my daughter just because she does great, really great at communicating and it’s uncomfortable. And that’s a muscle that you have to build to be able to be uncomfortable and do it anyway. And so that’s why I would start with that.

Jess (51:23.396)
Yeah, and it’s true. I I was on the phone yesterday with a friend of mine that I needed to tell her something. And I was like, I wasn’t, I’ve waited to tell you this because you get so excited and that makes me feel anxious. And I love your excitement and I know it comes from a great place, but I have to take care of me. And I need to, like, I know what makes me feel anxious. And she responded with.

I’m so glad you told me that because I do get excited, but I don’t want you to feel anxious. So was like, I know that this was on me, that this is a me thing, but communicating the way it’s showing up and then having that response of, okay, I get it. Like, I’m not mad you waited a couple of days to share this information with me. This is huge. This is exciting. And I get it. I get where you’re coming from. And it’s the sign of a healthy relationship.

Melinda Rae (51:51.399)
Yeah.

Melinda Rae (52:15.581)
See, and that’s exactly an example of what I’m saying. You talk to her about it and I have an idea of who it is. Which is great, which is great. you talked to her about it beforehand. were able, I’m gonna guess you guys have had lots of conversations around things like this. So it’s easy then to bring it up when it’s something that you may feel a little more uncomfortable about. So,

Jess (52:23.182)
Yeah.

Jess (52:33.378)
Yeah.

Jess (52:39.15)
Yeah. And it wasn’t even a serious conversation either. Like I started it with, I have a secret. And her telling me, okay, what is it? was like, well, I’m scared to tell you. She’s like, scared. I was like, not scared, but yeah. Anyways, these types of conversations can surface in any way, or form. Some are definitely gonna be on the more serious, maybe even make it or break it side of things. And then some are gonna be, I…

Melinda Rae (52:46.131)
you

Melinda Rae (52:53.498)
What?

Jess (53:06.232)
get anxious about things, so that’s me. And it’s not something serious or you did something wrong. It’s you being you and I love you for it, but also me being me and knowing that I’m working on that. So, but thank you. Thank you so much, Melinda, for coming on How Can Funny Something? Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you?

Melinda Rae (53:18.415)
Yeah, yeah.

Melinda Rae (53:22.216)
Right.

Melinda Rae (53:27.741)
Well, my website is melindaray.com, M-E-L-I-N-D-A-R-A-E. I’m also on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. That’s it, I think. Yeah. I can send out, I can send you some stuff. Do you have some stuff from my bio? Okay, yeah.

Jess (53:41.08)
Okay, good.

Jess (53:44.868)
Yeah, I have all your links and you guys listening know that I’m not going to leave you hanging. So all of her information will be linked in the show notes. Otherwise, this does conclude another episode of how to 20 something. If you liked what you heard, if you learned something new, if you or someone you know has a hard time with feeling reciprocated in their relationships, then please share this episode or post it on social media and tag me tag Melinda when you do. And as always,

I can’t wait to be in your headphones again next week with another brand new episode.