Jess (00:01.388)
Welcome back to another episode of How to 20 Something, where today’s conversation kind of builds off of last week’s episode. Last week, I talked to you about how nothing changes if nothing changes. And it was centered around one of my personal training clients and his relationship to his job. This week is to nudge you to take action and build the career you actually want, no permission required, which is something that is so important to learn when you’re young. Otherwise, you’ll find yourself in five.

10, 15 years down the line, feeling really stuck in your life and career path, constantly waiting for someone else to give you the green light to go for it. But Austin and I can both speak from experience when I say only you can give yourself that green light. It’s saying yes before you know how or taking action before you feel ready. And that’s just the surface of what we’ll be getting into today. Austin Lutz is a technology consultant.

entrepreneur, product builder, and the founder and host of Lut’s Talk, a podcast featuring honest conversations with the people building technology, businesses, products, and unconventional careers. During his full-time career, Austin works in enterprise communications and customer experience, helping organizations modernize the way their employees collaborate and their customers communicate with them. His work requires him to take complicated technology

And connected to practical business problems and real human experiences. Outside of his primary career, Austin has intentionally built a second professional identity. He launched Lut’s Talk without a traditional background in media, broadcasting, or journalism. Through the podcast, he has interviewed founders, executives, engineers, creators, and product leaders about the decisions, mistakes, risks, and unexpected circumstances behind their success. Austin is also the creator of Send Links.

A software platform designed to help service-based businesses manage bookings, customer communications, payments, and daily operations. Building the company has given him firsthand experience with the difference between having an idea, building a working product, finding customers, and creating a real business. His path has not been a perfectly planned progression. Austin has pursued ideas that worked, experimented with projects that failed.

Jess (02:23.448)
Change direction and learn how to build in public without pretending every outcome was a success. He believes that many people delay meaningful opportunities because they are waiting to feel qualified, confident, and completely prepared. Austin speaks candidly about career uncertainty, entrepreneurship, personal branding, failure, confidence, and balancing ambition with the responsibilities of work and family. He is especially passionate about helping people understand.

That they do not need to choose one permanent identity or have their entire lives figured out during their 20s. Through his career, podcasts, and entrepreneurial projects, Austin encourages people to follow their curiosity, build genuine relationships, take intelligent risks, and create opportunities instead of waiting for permission. Hi, Austin, and welcome to How to Twenty Something.

Austin (03:14.319)
Wow, Jess, thank you so much. What a what an intro. I don’t know if I quite deserve all of that, but it was wonderful. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Jess (03:21.592)
Hey, you’ve got a lot in your tool belt and I’m happy to have you on and kind of dive right into the very first thing I want to ask you, which is what part of your career and building all of these different things has felt the scariest to pursue?

Austin (03:38.159)
Yeah, I think you know, I’ll I’ll I’ll kind of start with a couple things and really get to the one that I I find to be the most scariest. So I am currently thirty-six years old. and as you mentioned in the intro, I’ve gone through a lot of different paths to get to where I am today. And I think the biggest thing that scared me the most was back in it would have been twenty fifteen, so it was about eleven years ago.

I received a phone call one day while I was working at a an established company that had been around for 30 plus years. I was making good money. I had a good relationship with my boss, who I still talk to to this day. And on the other end of that phone call was a guy who I did not know. And

He started talking to me and was explaining to me that through his friends, his relationships, people that he knew, he got my contact information. And he wanted to know right there on the call if I was interested in meeting up to talk about a role that he had opening up at his startup. Now, what makes this important and why this matters is joining a startup is not something that people

don’t do right. That’s a common theme amongst people in their twenties. The difference here was is that this was about three months before I was supposed to get married. spoiler, I did get married, so it all worked out. I’m still here today. But it was a time in my life where it felt already overwhelming because I was, you know, getting to the point where I was I was, you know, looking at a house. I was trying to figure out finances. I was trying to figure out

where I was going to be taking my life. And up to that point in 2015, I did not know really where I was headed. I had a really good, successful job. Like I said, I was I was making good money. I had a lot of good relationships with my coworkers. And you might ask, like, why would you even take a call or consider taking a job at a startup when you have all these changes going on in your life? And I guess the the the part that I always hearken back to is

Austin (05:58.059)
I’ve always been a risk taker, like my entire life, you know, from the from the time when I was young. not so much now. I mean, I you know, I I say that kind of in vain because a lot of what I do even today is is a lot of risk. you know, both at my job and then, you know, the things that I’m doing, the money that I’m putting into different businesses, different ideas, things that I want to go build. But the scariest part was

I had no idea really who this person was, other than what, you know, he had told me and what he was looking to do. So I had started, I was the I think it was the second or third, probably the third employee at this company. and that company exists today. I think they’ve got about sixty people that work full time. So I spent, you know, basically from day one working with that business and you know, helped grow the business. Now I I wasn’t the only reason.

why that business was successful. There was a lot of people in that business that cared a lot about what it is we were doing at the time. And I think, you know, I was just happy to be a part of something like that for the last, you know, ten years. I just recently had switched to I just recently switched to a new position about a year and a half ago. So I talk about it in the past because it it is in the past, but it helped shape me to be the person that I am currently.

Jess (07:21.112)
So what made it scary was the fact that it was a startup and startups have a lot more risk associated with it.

Austin (07:27.806)
Definitely. Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, w when you take a position like that, you have no idea about, you know, f the financial stability of not only the founder, but also, you know, whether or not the business will be successful. But in the short time that I was able to talk to him, we you know, we we kind of grew tighter together and I started to believe in what he was saying and you know, it all worked out, but that’s a huge

That’s a huge bifurcation in your career when you start taking serious risks like that. you know, especially when I’m trying to buy a house, I’m trying to get married, and I’m also gonna quit my job where I make good money, that’s stable with a stable company to go work for somebody I don’t know, have no idea whether or not there’s gonna be enough business to maintain that business for the next year, two years, three years. so yeah, I mean it that was scary for me.

I didn’t I didn’t lead on to that, you know, when I took the job and you know, my my wife, she was obviously my fiance at the time. That was an interesting conversation to have with her too. It’s like, hey, you know, I know we’re getting married and things have been, you know, working out well, but now I’m gonna go take this enormous risk all while trying to get married and buy a house.

Jess (08:44.418)
Yeah. So what how did you how were you able to give yourself that green light to go and say yes to this scary decision?

Austin (08:52.87)
Yeah, it’s it’s a good question, Jess. I think, you know, for me, I’ve always been of the mindset that if not now, when? And I think when I look at that period of my life, I really had to think about if I didn’t do this now, would that be a risk that I was willing to take in my thirties or even in my forties, where maybe I had an established, you know, home that, you know, required, you know, a a

bigger down payment or a bigger mortgage or cars or kids. Like, you know, obviously kids complicate things when it comes to you know, income and daycare and all the things that you do to be an adult. You know, you you hearken on this a lot about adulting, and I think it’s an interesting topic because, you know, adulting has a lot of different meanings. And for me, it’s making sure bills are getting paid, making sure there’s food on the table, making sure that you’re saving money for retirement, all the things that you don’t

really want to do, but have to be done. that’s part of what I think is, you know, the you know, the the nexus of that question.

Jess (09:57.538)
Yeah, I find it interesting when I read your bio the first time, just on my own, and you said the word intelligent risk because something I say a lot is I help people take calculated risks. And for me, that is something that it is thought through enough that you know you’re not gonna regret this decision and you’re not just all willy nilly throwing your life up in the air and seeing how the dice rolls, essentially. It’s you’re like, Okay, I’m thinking this through.

This is knowing that there’s still risk associated with it. This is the potential for the risk, but this is also the potential for the payout and what else could come from this and what it could lead to and what I could learn from it. And you really have to analyze each side of that coin to help you understand what decision is going to be best for you in this moment. And to the point you’re making is, and to the point I make a lot to my clients and on this podcast is.

Your 20s is the time to make these kinds of bigger risks because you don’t have a mortgage you’re worrying about. Because you’re not, you’re most likely not married. You most likely don’t have kids. I know most of my audience is not married, does not have kids, because that’s who I speak to and that’s who I help. And that’s why you’re the most free right now than you will ever be for your entire life, unless you choose to be child-free and single, which is a whole other story. But we’re we’re telling you to take the risk.

Analyze the outcomes for sure, but go and take the risk.

Austin (11:28.643)
Yeah, and and I, you know, just to piggyback off of that, Jess, you know, I used to be under this impression and I used to, you know, unknowingly explain to people that were in their thirties and forties how busy I was. And I think that’s a that’s a that’s a hot topic that you talk about a lot on your show. if you’re hearing this and you think how you I’m so busy, you are not so busy. You just are not allocating the right time in the right places because

I spent many, many years assuming that there was no one else that understood the level of effort that it took to do certain things, you know, whether it was taking a trip with your friends or planning a vacation or working after hours to get something done. That pales in comparison, I think. And and again, not to sound all boomery like get off my lawn, but it really does pale in comparison to the amount of effort that.

even in the last couple of years you have to put into something is if you’re you know assuming you’re passionate about it, you know, whether it’s send links that I’ve been building and trying to generate revenue and I just this week I I landed my first paying customer on the platform. So, you know, there’s always light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to projects and things that you’re working on.

But use the time now in your twenties to do these things and take the risks that you likely would not take in your thirties and forties. and maybe you will, but for the most part, I’ve I don’t meet many thirties and forty year old people that are taking risks like upending their career and going to work for a startup and somebody they don’t know.

Jess (13:11.298)
Yeah, busy and time is definitely one of those funny things because we all relate to it differently. And I’ve I’ve very much helped open my clients’ eyes up to how much time they actually do have. Because I think of my own life too. And I’m sure you can relate to some of this, but I’ll even go back to when I was in college, my junior spring. That was my toughest semester yet. That started my coffee addiction because I was averaging about four hours of sleep every night. And that is definitely.

I’m a really busy person right now. I juggle a lot, which is what we’ll get into in second. But that was probably the only time my life where I quite literally had no time for anything else. It was school, it was studying, it was homework, it was responsibilities, and then it was try sleep as much as I could, which was not a lot. And I really relate back to that time as like, okay, even on my busiest weeks, I still am not nearly as busy as where I was in that one semester. And

Austin (13:59.647)
Yeah.

Jess (14:10.54)
The other side of that is you’re always going to be able to find time that you didn’t know you had once you have kids or you have other elements that are you’re trying to work towards in your life, whether it’s building a business outside of your full-time job or trying to do something else with your time, you find a way to make it work. There is surprise time all over the place. And the saying that is very common, I say it to everyone, is if you ever want something done, you give it to a busy mom because they’re gonna find a way.

Austin (14:38.177)
Mm.

Jess (14:39.192)
To get it done, to make it work, because that’s what they’re used to doing with kids and with delays and with work and all these other things that they’re trying to juggle. And that’s like that’s what you and I do, Austin, is we are multi-passionate human beings. And I’m sure you get this question a lot of how do you have time to do it all? And I say a very organized calendar is what helps me do it all. Because time management is a real thing. If you want

Austin (15:02.964)
Yeah.

Jess (15:07.256)
To build something in your life, if you want to be able to make these calculated or intelligent risks, you need to have a healthier relationship to time. So how do you, Austin, balance your full-time job, your family responsibilities, podcasting, and building a company that helps service businesses?

Austin (15:29.693)
Yeah, I I think if I so I’ll start with a couple of things. I think if I had the answer to that, we’d have a very different conversation, Jess, but the way I manage it currently is I have these ebbs and flows where I will so imagine forty hours a week. You work a normal job, right? That’s the standard. Some jobs you might work fifty, some in your twenties you might work sixty, some seventy.

There was a time in my twenties where I was doing 80, 90 hour weeks, working Saturdays and Sundays, trying to save up every dollar I could possibly save up to be able to do the things that I wanted to do. nowadays what I do is I have kind of this system where if I explore an idea and I want to pursue that idea further, I have to pick an idea or pick a project that I’ve been working on and I I I kind of table that project for a couple of weeks.

I don’t stop working on it, but there’s a finite amount of time that exists throughout the week. And you’re not going to manufacture time. it just doesn’t happen. So you have to take what time you do have and put it towards the things that you think are going to be successful, right? Success I don’t think is necessarily measured in how much money you make or how much how many things you have. I think it’s about what you can actually like what you’re accomplishing.

What are you actually doing with that time that validates the idea? And then you can take that idea and then grow it into something else. A good example of that. a few months ago, I like a lot of 30-year-olds, decided I was gonna give Calchie and Polymarket and these prediction markets a a go. And I wanted to look into them them deeper. But obviously that’s gonna take a lot of time. So

I tabled a couple of projects that I was working on, spent every night I could researching, running tests, using AI, obviously, to be able to simulate different scenarios on whether or not prediction markets could be beaten. Because that was the whole thing. You know, on Twitter X, whatever you want to call it, there’s been a lot of things that you’ll see where it says, I gave Claude $1,000 or I gave Polymarket $1,000 and it turned it into $100,000. I’m here to tell you that is absolutely.

Austin (17:52.582)
fundamentally not true. There’s no way if that were true, people would be doing it. they do it for engagement. You know, I I have this phrase that says clicks drive engagement and delusion drives traffic. So what that means is anyone can go say anything on any platform around the world just to drum up interest. But at the end of the day, what is it actually doing? So for me, you know, I

Jess (18:07.007)
Mm-hmm.

Austin (18:22.041)
I spent a lot of time thinking how do I put the right amount of time into the right areas that yield success for me and my family. Like if something’s not working, I have to just cut it off and and table it for later because that time needs to be allocated for something that’s gonna be more productive.

Jess (18:42.626)
How do you deem if something’s not working? Like at what point I think a lot of us be like, well, I gave it a go for two weeks. It’s not working. I’m not gonna do it again. And it’s like, okay, two weeks is not does not give you enough information. So what do you you use to determine whether something’s working or not?

Austin (18:46.703)
Yeah.

Austin (18:55.384)
Yeah.

Yeah, it it depends on what on what I’m working on, right? So I’ll use Sinlinks as an example because I think it’s very, you know, it’s very pointed. We we we just mentioned that earlier. About six months ago, I started down the idea of AI is obviously changing the world. And one of the things that I felt that we were missing in this world was a way to capitalize on making it easier for services based businesses.

to book and to be able to provide consultations. as a homeowner, I have seen an increase like twenty times what it costs to get a plumber or an electrician or an HVAC person or someone to cut your grass. Not because they not because it’s any harder than it was a few years ago. It’s because there’s less and less people in that field. Everyone’s so drawn to the tech sector and AI and

computer science that it’s causing a reduction in workforce in these blue-collar jobs that actually, you know, do things. You know, again, like like electricians and HVAC technicians and plumbers. so I wanted to think outside the box a little bit and I started building the platform and maybe, I don’t know, probably a month ago, I was pretty discouraged because I wasn’t getting any traction. I wasn’t getting

the feedback from my friends and family that I thought I I I should have received. And aga and again, I think it goes back to what you say often. It’s like you’re not special, right? I used to think that I was special. You know, your whole life you’re your whole life you you get taught, you know, you’re so smart and you’re doing all the right things and all that’s really great until you get an idea and you want to go and promote that idea and they’re like, cool, we don’t care. We have our own things going on in our own life.

Jess (20:38.264)
We all do.

Austin (20:53.984)
And up until even a few months ago, I didn’t really realize that until I started to try to grow that side of things, like with Synlinks. So I became pretty discouraged and and I’m getting getting around to your question. I just want to frame it in the right way, because I was pretty discouraged and I didn’t really know where the end was because I’m obviously spending money to run infrastructure. I’m spending money on the ever you know, the ever present AI tokens through Claude, through Codecs.

I’m spending my evenings burning through this, not doing other things that I want to do. And then I got an idea. I was just sitting around and I got an idea. What if I’m missing the mark? And what if I am targeting some of the wrong people? Plumbers, electricians, HVAC. They want something different than than what

send links offers. So I got to thinking about like chiropractors and barbers and people that are very transactional that require consistent bookings and a way for them to be reminded, way for their customers to be reminded. So I reframed some of the the the text on the website. I spent a little bit of money on marketing. And then I eventually started to see that upward trajectory of interest in the product.

I was so very close to shutting it all down. You know, at that point I had spent, you know, a couple thousand dollars on all these other things that, you know, we’re we’re trying to to get it off the ground. but yeah, I mean, for me, it’s if I’m working on a product like that, is you’ve got six months essentially to figure out if the idea has legs and if after six months you haven’t fundamentally changed what the product does or can do.

And you haven’t made one dollar, it’s probably time to hang it up. You know, because you don’t necessarily have to like tie it to money, but you’ve got to tie it to other success criteria. Are people interested enough to want to engage further? Are they trying the thing that you’re building? and are they staying? Right. we talk a lot in the software world about the retention rate. You know, it’s it doesn’t do any good.

Austin (23:07.593)
to have people interested sign up, pay for your product and then leave after a month because customer acquisition cost greatly outweighs paying to keep a customer that you that you spent all that money to to acquire.

Jess (23:21.56)
Well, I think you what you said, yes to everything that you said. And I think one of the biggest things that you did mention is that you don’t necessarily have to hang up the project that you’re working on that hasn’t given you a single dollar that you’re trying to do. Like you said, it’s reframe it. You have this idea that you know is valuable. You just have to find the market that is going to match it. If like your initial, let’s say like, so you go into it thinking, okay, I know that.

Plumbers and HVAC and lawn guys, like they all, they all need this for sure. But if they’re not looking for it, that’s not going to work out well. But it could be just knowing that industry has this need that inspires this idea for you to then go build and create. And you realize that it actually is better fit in a different industry with like barbers and something that is more consistent with having their bookings, as you were saying, then that’s that’s the reframe. You didn’t go hang it up. You

Austin (24:16.39)
Yeah.

Jess (24:19.928)
figured out how you had you knew this idea was good. This idea was needed. This idea is valuable. And you just had to go find where else it was going to fit. Cause I did the same thing with my TEDx talk of I knew I had a really good idea and I dug my heels into the ground. I’m like, this is going on a stage. And I’m going to try my hardest to get it on a stage. I just happen to get very, I would say quote unquote lucky timing, divine intervention, knowing the right people, all the things all work

Into my favor of it was the second stage I applied to with this idea, I got on it. But that doesn’t happen for everyone with every business with every idea. Truthfully, a lot of people’s ideas are really stupid and they suck. So you also have to know that for yourself, too. Like do your research, reframe as what you can, and then also know and be truthful with yourself of when it’s time to hang it up.

Austin (25:05.084)
Accurate.

Austin (25:15.91)
Yeah. Yeah, I think you you nailed it, Jess. I mean, being honest with yourself, once you realize like you know, everyone likes to think that their idea is the best idea that’s ever been thought of in the history of the world. Go ask twenty people that you don’t know what they think of your idea. Over half will tell you it sucks. I promise you. That is that is just the reality of the way things work. doesn’t mean it it it truly sucks, but it does

get you outside of your comfort zone where if you surround yourself with people that only validate your ideas and tell you how great you are, you get stuck in this world of I can’t possibly make anything any better or have a better idea because all of my ideas are the best. And that is a bad place to be because if you don’t have people that are questioning what you’re doing or at least inquiring about what’s next, you might not be with the right people.

And I know we’ll get into that in a second, but like I think surrounding yourself with people that uplift you and that challenge you to be better is way better than, you know, sitting around people that only validate things that you like. Because they wouldn’t hang around with you if they weren’t your friends. They didn’t like your ideas. Of course they’re gonna tell you anything you tell them about an idea or a business venture is the best. So yeah. I I don’t I don’t think that

I don’t think that spending your time around only people that validate ideas is is what needs to happen.

Jess (26:51.534)
Yeah, I call them your cheerleaders. I think it’s good to have your cheerleaders. I would say my mom, my sister, my mastermind group. Honestly, a large reason as to why I started therapy, not like a couple of years ago, is because I knew my business-centered networking group was filled with women who I adore and I love, but they were my cheerleaders.

Austin (26:53.743)
There you go. Definitely.

Jess (27:16.438)
And they would just tell me how amazing I was, and every idea I had was amazing, and I’m so inspiring and go me. And I was like, okay, I need someone to put me in my place because I don’t have that. And I’m recognizing that I need that since I know I’m not perfect. I know every idea that comes through my head is not amazing and wonderful and inspiring. And I need someone else to be part of my team to kind of knock me down a couple pegs. And I’ll say,

my boyfriend Ryan, which honestly, guys, this is how us and I know each other, is through Ryan. He is very good at challenging me. He’s very good at being my cheerleader, but he will also challenge me even when I’m not asking for it. When I was like, I need you to help me uplift this idea and develop it even more. And he’s like, No, it’s terrible. I’m like, What what the heck? But it’s true. You do need both. Both are very important because you don’t want

Austin (28:07.596)
Yeah.

Jess (28:12.162)
to be only around people who are just gonna shoot your ideas down, but you also don’t only want to be around people that are gonna uplift you 100% of the time. So find, find the people that you know you can go to to be like, hey, give it to me real. What’s actually going on? Is it good? Is it bad? Cause those are those are the ones you want to keep around.

Austin (28:20.523)
Yeah.

Austin (28:33.149)
Definitely agree with that.

Jess (28:35.16)
So being from entrepreneur to entrepreneur, there’s a lot of life skills that get built from running a business and learning different elements, learning how to deal with people and the back ends and you’re especially as a solopreneur, solopreneurs, you are one-stop shop doing everything. And it has a lot of carryover to real life. But

I’m curious, you can definitely mention how it’s carried over to your real life as well, but how has building these extra things outside of your full time job helped you with your career that is your full time job? So like the outside stuff helping the inside stuff.

Austin (29:17.088)
Yeah. Yeah, w with with what I’ve started doing and and again I didn’t really start, you know, any sort of ventures or any outside obsessions, I’ll call them, because I I I become obsessed when I start things. But I didn’t really start that till about a year or two, maybe yeah, probably two and a half years ago, where I would start these projects and ideas and I would do a ton of research on them. I think, you know, for me, Jess

It’s so difficult to hang on a second. Sorry, we’re gonna have to edit that out. That’s my fault.

Jess (29:57.006)
You’re good.

Austin (30:03.85)
Totally lost my train of thought. can you just say the question again?

Jess (30:07.618)
Yeah, how does your how have the outside stuff helped you inside your job? Like outside career pursuits with inside career pursuits.

Austin (30:14.76)
Yeah, sorry. Yeah, thank you. Sorry, I’m brain dead this Friday. so f so yeah, thanks, Jess. I you know, for me, starting any sort of project or anything like that outside of my day job has allowed me to be more effective at my day job because now I’m getting exposed to things that I wouldn’t necessarily get exposed to while I’m at work. you know, ideas around businesses that and I again I’ll use Sinlinks as an example, but like understanding a

Jess (30:18.86)
Yeah.

Austin (30:44.574)
business workflow a lot deeper has helped me have better conversations with decision makers in my line of work where you don’t realize working in tech that you’re not always selling a tech product. You’re selling a way to make their job easier and to be more efficient for the business. When I came into when I came into tech back in 2013, I would say that would be my first real tech job

I was under the impression that the business or the IT drove the business. So IT gave the business tools that enabled them to be successful. But in reality, businesses drive IT because they tell IT, here are the tools that we need to be successful, whether it’s a an amalgamation of all these different products bolted on together to do the exact workflow that differenti differentiates that business from other businesses.

so that part of building outside of my job has helped me significantly in understanding not just the tech, like how does stuff work, how do knobs turn, how do packets get sent from one place to the other, but like what are businesses asking for so that I can have more pointed conversations with them about how the technology actually helps them, not just sell them another license. I mean, there’s plenty of of of things that

a lot of companies do where they’ll just transact a license and they’ll sell you whatever you want to buy them. But I think a lot of times and and we’re seeing it more now than ever, that businesses don’t need that. They have plenty of places they can buy from. They want advice, they want direction, they want guidance in the in the direction they’re taking the business.

Jess (32:32.856)
Yeah, I would say sales is probably your best carryover into running a business is if you ever don’t know what to do with your career, go get a sales job because you’re gonna learn so much about how to talk to people, how to pitch it and frame it in a way that is based off of their needs and what they’re looking for versus what you’re giving. And my coach teaches us like you’re not selling the tools, you’re selling the process. And the process is someone is coming to you needing help with this thing, and you’re like,

Austin (32:38.662)
Definitely.

Jess (33:00.832)
This journey I’m gonna take you on is going to help you get that exact thing you’re looking for. But what I’m not telling you is that I’m gonna teach you how to do time management and build a routine and work on your sleep. But it’s like those are the elements that are actually gonna help you get to where you wanna go. And but I’m not telling you that up front because that’s not what you’re looking for. So it’s like it’s sales learning sales within your own business or even just in a sales-specific role is gonna have carryover through.

Austin (33:11.335)
That’s right.

Jess (33:29.032)
anything else you’ll ever do in your entire life. The other thing I will say is that as you were answering the question, it was just reminding me of how what do I, what skills have I learned that helps me look at my clients more so and help them determine if entrepreneurship is the route for them or even freelance and just like contract work, if that’s for them or not. And this is something I mentioned in my episode from

couple months ago of what it really means to be self employed in your twenties. And it’s like, if you’re are you able to set your own deadlines, go reach out to people and talk to strangers, follow through on the things you say you’re gonna do. Can you hold yourself truly and fully accountable to everything? If not if the answer to any of that is no, we’re not really or I’m not sure, entrepreneurship is not for you and you need to learn how to do that in a job that will help you build up those skills to then take it elsewhere.

So I think it kind of goes both ways, of it’s not even necessarily, I know I asked you specifically, how does outs the businesses you’ve built and the work you’ve done outside of your job help you with your job? But I also think there is that other way around is how does your job help you with the things you want to do outside of your job?

Austin (34:43.278)
Yeah, I mean I I get, you know, obviously, you know, I’m in conversations daily with people that have tr real problems that affect the lives of people around me. You know, whether it’s you know, whether it’s a hospital, whether it’s someone in finance, whether it’s a local nonprofit. Real problems require solutions that have to be well thought because you you can certainly, like I said earlier, sell anyone anything, but you want to make sure that you’re providing

a a real value to them for the thing you you’re transacting, right? one of the things I think about a lot when we talk about having your day job help your side job or however you want to frame that question is you are forced to r redevelop your inefficiencies in your life by having a job that is so demanding. And I use work from home as an example. A year and a half ago

I had never worked full-time work from home. And one of the things that I noticed early on was yes, I was getting my work done, but I was also finding myself just kind of like lonely. It’s kind of weird. It’s kind of like like Stockholm Syndrome, where I was you know, I didn’t want to be at the office all the time, but then when I worked from home, I all I wanted to do was be at the office. And it was the same thing during COVID where

You know, during COVID, everyone was like, we have to go home. And we were home for six months. And I was like, I just need one day at the office. Please send me back to the office. and I figured out a way to will myself into being more responsible, having a better schedule, having a better sleep schedule, cutting down, you know, drinking, doing more exercise, things like that that just make you a better person. I was forcing myself to do those things because

The better I felt and the more activity that I did and the more structure I put into my life, the better results I was producing at my job. And it was very apparent, you know, and you and you don’t realize it, but the people around you that will critique you and give you good feedback, they understand and they notice the difference. You know, people that know that you do good work, once you start doing things better in your own life, they’re gonna be like, wow, man, like you, you’ve clearly stepped it up.

Austin (37:07.134)
Even though you’ve been delivering good work, this is exceptional work now. And that’s the bar. The thing you have to be careful with, and and Jess, I think you can certainly relate to this, is once you set the bar and you raise the bar, now when you don’t get to that level for any subsequent task or project, questions start to get asked. Well, that’s not what the last five projects have been. Why are you not delivering at the same quality level? So

I’m not saying you don’t need to raise the bar, but just be prepared that when you raise the bar in your own professional life, that will be the new expectation.

Jess (37:46.778)
Yeah, but anything you do in your personal life is gonna, to your point, have that carryover to the professional. So it’s I think it’s more motivating than it is scary. It kind of sounds a little scary of like, well, why would I want to raise the bar if now I’m expected to operate at that higher level all the time? It’s just gonna be easier for me to just fly right at the radar versus above the radar. But no, it’s take care of yourself.

Austin (37:53.129)
Definitely.

Austin (38:08.105)
Yep. Yeah.

Jess (38:11.842)
That should be the goal. And then it’ll have that carryover into what you’re doing in your life. And that’s something that I do work on my with my clients on. A lot of them, especially within the last year, year and a half, have come to me saying, Jess, help, I want help landing a full-time job. These are fresh college grads. Want help landing a full-time job, but I know that I don’t want to be here forever. I want to eventually start my own thing. So I help them get that full-time job. And then we work on that next element is.

How do you now work on that transition? How do you build up your time after work to help you get to that next thing? And that’s those are your habits. That’s going to the gym. That’s meal prepping. So you don’t have to spend so much time in the kitchen every single night. And now you have extra time to work on other things. It’s networking. So it’s after work. Instead of going home and sitting on the couch, you’re going to an event and you’re talking to people and you’re building up your relationships. Like there’s there’s so much more carryover to taking care of yourself and having a routine.

than you would ever know without actually doing it. Like you have to have this one of the first things I work on with clients is your routine because of all the carryover it has to everything else that you are wanting to accomplish.

Austin (39:25.915)
Yeah, and what an what an understatement. when you when you mention going to events and networking. One of the things that I think is so important, especially early on in your career, get yourself out there and meet people. They may not be and probably will not be all great or the right person. but being able to practice con like practice being in a conversation with someone who knows more than you will help you become the person who knows more than them.

And and I use that as an example because I would not be where I am today in my life or my career without mentors that I intentionally sought out. I remember one of my first jobs ever, there was a guy that I just was drawn to from you know, from the beginning. He was very well spoken, he had a lot of experience doing what he did professionally, and I made it my life’s mission to go spend time with him.

After work, you know, before work, I would come in early, I would stay late, we would try to get up on the weekends, I would do things. And I’m not saying that you’ve got to go and spend all waking hours of your life chasing other people around, but it goes back to what I said earlier about surrounding yourself with people that are uplifting and that want to see you six successful. Because it’s it’ll be very apparent if you start hanging out with someone who has ulterior motives.

where they’re using you for for for their own personal gain. but even more so, someone who wants you to be successful will follow that through to the very end. And that person I still talk to to this day, fifteen years later.

Jess (41:07.298)
Yeah, I would say on that note, talk to the person that intimidates the fuck out of you. Cause I did that recently. There is this woman, her name’s Christy. And I tell everyone, I was like, she intimidates me in the best way possible. And I ran into her at a networking event last Monday at the time of us recording this last Monday. And I was like, Christy, I actually messaged you on.

Austin (41:14.22)
Mm, there you go.

Austin (41:30.235)
Mm.

Jess (41:33.898)
LinkedIn, I want to treat you to some coffee so I could get to know you better. Like I’m like shitting my pants in the throughout this whole conversation. She was like, my god, girl, if my assistant checks those messages, here’s my phone number. Like this woman who I think is such a powerhouse of a woman gave me her personal phone number and we had like an hour long conversation this week of just talking and

She is one of those, like she’ll hype you up, but she’s also incredible. And I’m like, how are you doing this? What’s going on? Like you’re amazing, but not just, not just tooting her own horn. Like we had real conversations through it. But I’m telling you, talk to the people that intimidate you. And on that note is because I’ve had a I’ve been having a lot of conversations lately. I’ve been trying to make my network deeper, not bigger. And with every single person I’ve had a one-on-one with.

Austin (42:05.424)
Mm.

Austin (42:09.52)
Yeah.

Jess (42:27.436)
They have all said the same thing, that they are still figuring it out. And I and I think that’s something that’s so reassuring is even these people that I admire and that have been in the business for a long time or have had these very established careers and are much older than me, they still are trying to figure it out.

Austin (42:33.443)
Definitely.

Austin (42:49.677)
Yeah. Yeah, we’re all trying to figure it out. And I I mean, I think it’s you know, it’s well said, Jess. I mean, there’s no right or wrong answers, but doing nothing is not an action. And I think that’s what I’ve tried to live by too, is like you can s you can sit in the safe space of doing nothing, but that’s not gonna move the needle at all to get you where you I assume you wanna be.

Jess (43:14.626)
Yeah, and that the moving the needle is what gets scary. So I want to ask you is how can you or how have you been able to decipher between maybe not being qualified for something or not even being ready for something or something just not being that good idea that we were talking about earlier and actually just being scared to go after it?

Austin (43:36.886)
Yeah, I I I’ve lived my entire career this way and I’ll I’ll I’ll frame it in a way that I think your listeners can understand where it it’s very hard to differentiate yourself from your peers. You know, you said it best when you when you talked about, you know, you’re not special. And it is true because you might have a degree in computer science from Stanford. You might have two master’s degrees, you might be a college dropout, right?

There may be an even playing field across the board, but there are twenty thousand other people that have those same credentials. What makes you different? And what I think matters the most out of all of that, obviously education is very important. I value education, but I think you must start doing the job that you want to do before somebody asks you to do that job. and you know, it’s kind of the title of this episode where it’s like stop, you know, asking for permission and

You know, I I adopted that a long time ago because I realized early on in my career that no one was ever gonna sit me down and say, Austin, do you want an opportunity to go make more money? And do you want an opportunity to have more responsibility? And do you want an opportunity to grow your career? We’re just gonna give you a chance and you just go do that. And if you’re not successful, no big deal, we’ll just put you back where you were. That is never gonna happen.

So I started just doing things. I started creating jobs that I wanted to do. and then, you know, promotions and other things came along with that. But at the end of the day, we have a responsibility to not just the business that that pays us a salary or sales commission or whatever to come to work, but you have a responsibility to yourself to push forward every single day and make yourself better, right? By you making yourself better.

It’s gonna make everyone around you better. It’s gonna make your professional career better. it’s gonna make your personal life better. But do something you’re passionate about and just push forward with that. I I don’t know the exact timeline in where I started doing that, but I I remember distinctively when I worked in a at a previous job, I had a conversation with my boss and and he said he said, if you want to start

Austin (46:00.062)
Calling yourself a senior network person, you can do that now. And I was like, okay, cool. And I was like, why? And he’s Well, you’ve been doing the job of that for the last year, so now you just you just change your title on LinkedIn or whatever. And I didn’t really think about that because didn’t care about titles or anything. All I cared about was making sure the business was successful and that our customers were happy. And with that will come title changes and all that good stuff, but I don’t

personally try to get tied up into that ’cause it just doesn’t mean anything. You know, the connections you make with other people in the industry and the results that are tied to your name matter way more than what is on your bio page on LinkedIn or, you know, Twitter or Facebook, whatever you whatever social media gets used. I don’t I don’t use a ton other outside of LinkedIn and X and YouTube. so not really sure.

Jess (46:54.776)
Well, I wanna give you some pushback because I’ve had these conversations with clients before, recently actually. And it’s this idea of giving yourself more roles and responsibilities of this higher level, higher caliber, and the promotions will come. And the pushback I wanna give is there’s no guarantee that any of that is gonna come. And a lot of my clients, a lot of twenty somethings, I’d say twenty-five years and under who are

starting who are just growing their career and they’re taking on a little bit more responsibility with every quarter that passes, we’ll say there, if you do not have a good manager, that is not going to be a guaranteed you’re gonna get paid back, quote unquote, paid back for all of that effort you are putting into this career. So I have an answer in my mind, but I’m curious is what would be some other

Goal or mindset to work towards of I’m going to take the initiative. I’m going to give myself this permission and this green light to step up in my career and take on more roles and more responsibilities and create more jobs for me to do, knowing there is no guarantee of pay that comes with it. Why should I even bother?

Austin (48:01.746)
Mm.

Austin (48:16.102)
Yeah, I you know, I I’m I can’t wait to hear what you have to say on the topic. why d why do I do it? I’ll answer that. because I genuinely like to think, you know, and I I did even when I first started in my career, I like to think that the work that I do every day makes a difference. So I and I wanna be clear here, I’m not saying you need to go work a hundred hours a week consistently.

you it’s not about the quantity. It’s about the quality of the work. It is honing your skill set and becoming better at what it is you currently do so that people can understand that you have the aptitude to be able to take on more. Right. You don’t necessarily have to work at two AM and s and leave at at 10 PM but you have to deliver better quality work and showcase to the people, whether it’s your manager or not,

It might be somebody you work with today that eventually moves on to become a manager on a different team and a different company who remembers you and says, man, like all that work that Austin did never got noticed, but maybe he is somebody I want to hire. You don’t ever know who you work with, what they’re gonna be in five years. And, you know, the old adage, it’s like never burn a bridge. I I’m a firm believer in that. I think there’s a lot of things that

You know, the the the universe is an interesting place because the stars can align and you can find yourself in a position where maybe you were rude you know, unneedlessly to a coworker one year, five years from now, you’re on the other side of the table as a consultant, they’re the CTO at a decision maker. They’re not gonna forget that, and neither are you. so for me, I think it’s about sharpening the pencil and and becoming better at what it is you do, not so much how much.

Time you spent.

Jess (50:10.158)
Mm-hmm. I was my thought process was don’t attach your work ethic or what you want to take on with the outcome of a title or of a pay boost or of a bonus or any of that. It should be you want to take it on because either you know it’s important and it’s gonna help the company, or it’s gonna advance your skills and something that you’re wanting to work towards that could then carry over into a different role you have down the line. And now you get to add it to your resume. So it doesn’t all have to be for more money.

Austin (50:22.457)
Definitely.

Austin (50:36.566)
That’s right.

Jess (50:40.034)
But I know that that is the immediate I want to get paid for the work that I’m doing because no one’s telling me to do this and I’m doing extra things. So I just want you guys, like the ought you guys listening, to understand that there’s there’s more to it than that. And I love that Austin, you’re not attached to a title, but I also know that when you’re in your 20s and if you have entry level or beginner or whatever that first word is, followed by your role.

You wanna work so hard to get rid of that. You wanna feel like I wanna move up even just one more peg. And with that, I in my own head means that my salary should be more.

Austin (51:21.793)
You know, I think it it’s what’s well said, Jess. And I will say, you know, not on the same topic, but for anyone listening that’s curious about why titles matter or don’t, depending on what you believe, go take a job and work at a small business for a year. Go work somewhere where your presence is felt immediately if you don’t show up for work or if you deliver bad work. I know a lot of people and have

spoken to a lot of people that work for big corporations where if they didn’t come in tomorrow and they didn’t exist ever again, nothing would change. At a small business, I feel like a lot of that matters more and it’s magnified ten or a hundred times. so yeah, to your to your point, Jess, it it’s it’s well said. I mean, don’t tie a title to your self worth because you’re worth whatever you feel like you’re worth and what you contribute to the greater good.

Jess (52:20.216)
I also feel like it just makes it more transactional when you go into something with the expectation that you should be paid back for it. And

Austin (52:28.851)
Yeah, yeah. It’s it’s it’s not a good feeling to to have expectations that like, if I go into this and and work a couple extra hours, I’m gonna get notice, I’m gonna get a pay bump, I’m gonna get a a promotion, whatever that may be. And then when you don’t, you’re deflated because you’ve built up yeah, you’ve built this expectation up in your mind that you’re somehow gonna get paid back. And you know, you should do it selflessly, expecting nothing and

Jess (52:45.432)
Mm-hmm. And then you resent the place of work.

Austin (52:57.607)
With that will come recognition.

Jess (53:00.054)
Yeah. It’s like you do it because you wanna do it. It’s gonna help you out in a personal level, maybe even the business out. Obviously, like don’t ignore your actual responsibilities to pursue whatever this is, but release the what happens next from that. Just know that you’re you’re doing it for you.

Austin (53:13.94)
Definitely.

Jess (53:17.966)
All right, Austin, I have one final question for you before we close things out. And that is if you could sit down with your, we’ll say 22-year-old self and take away one piece of career pressure that he was carrying, what would you tell him?

Austin (53:18.187)
Well said.

Austin (53:37.513)
Career pressure. You know, I think for a long time I carried around a lot of the imposter syndrome, and I’m I’m sure your audience is familiar with the concept, but if you’re not, it’s you know, you doing a job that you’re not qualified for or don’t have the credentials for. I carried that with me for a long time because as many of you know or may not know, I

Jess (53:39.148)
Yeah, something weighing him down.

Austin (54:06.675)
didn’t I do not hold a college degree from any institution. I have certifications and things like that that I’ve done to validate the knowledge that I have in the field that I’m in. But when you’re young and you’re exiting college and you’re going to a a a job, a lot of the conversation is surrounded around where did you go to school? You know, what was that like? And I think me not going to and finishing school.

was a really tough thing for me to carry around because I brought nothing to the conversation where it was like, I didn’t go to school and then, you know, we’d move on in the circle and everyone would tell everybody where they went to school. And it’s like, well, you know, how could you possibly get a job without going to college? And I was just like, well, you know, I I started working early when I was like nineteen. first job was at FedEx actually moving boxes in and out of the

the 18-wheeler truck. So for me, it was it was it was just deflating for a long time. And then whenever, I’d say probably when I was like in my mid to late 20s, I started realizing that there like I wasn’t special. There were a lot of people like me that did not necessarily have the credentials that I had built up in my mind that were required to do a certain job.

What’s required to do certain jobs is the willingness to learn, obviously the intelligence to be able to comprehend the problem, but then just the follow through, you know, being committed to what it is you’re doing. that aided me for so long and and and was one of the reasons why, you know, it took me till you know, probably my mid twenties before I I even made like a jump and and took a lot of risk because I was so afraid that if I didn’t take the safe bet,

I was gonna find myself in a in a in a a room of people that had all the experience and I was gonna be found out as an imposter. looking back, it’s really dumb to think that, you know, I ha I sh that I thought that, but you know, when you’re in your twenties, you don’t know you don’t know what’s out there and you don’t know what people think about you until you get in the same room with them.

Jess (56:10.273)
Mm.

Jess (56:25.9)
Yeah, I don’t think that’s dumb at all. I think we all have limitations in our own mind that holds us back from giving ourselves the permission to go for things. So I think that was a beautiful full circle way to wrap up this episode. And I wanna thank you for sharing all of your insight with this and helping my audience build a career that they want or a life that they want and help them feel like they don’t have to wait to feel ready because that’s never gonna come. That’s

I’ve I talk about that in a lot of different episodes, but your career can just look different across different points of time and that’s okay. And you’re the only person that is in charge of what you want to do with your career and how you want it to look. So where can people find you if they have more questions about you, want to listen to your podcast, or just connect with you?

Austin (57:13.379)
Yeah. Yeah, no, thanks, Jess. it’s just lootstalk.com. you can you can find everything there. I have a little bio page. I also write two on the blog, so anything that can’t be condensed into a forty five minute Apple podcast episode, I write into the blog. I’ve also got just a little about section on there, projects I’m working on, things like that. So if you want to see what I’m working on, feel free to to head on over.

Jess (57:40.11)
All right, yes. And that will be linked in the show notes for you guys to access. Otherwise, this does conclude another episode of How to 20 Something. If you liked what you heard, learned something new, or know someone who needs to hear this episode, then please share it, post it to your story, send to a friend, give me a five star rating. Just please do something to help me reach all of the 20 somethings in this world, navigating the most confusing decade of their life.

And as always, I can’t wait to be in your headphones again next week with another brand new episode.