Jess Diamond (00:02.872)
Welcome back to another episode of How to 20 something where today I’ve brought on a career coach and wait, hold on. I’m going to resave that. I was like looking at too many things just now. Give me one sec. Restarting. Welcome back to another episode of how to 20 something where today I brought on a career and executive coach to help you if you happen to find yourself in a toxic work environment.

If you’ve been listening to any of the last few episodes, then you have heard me reference my last few months at F45 and how toxic the management was there. In truth, these owners had a very bad reputation of being psychotic, but I personally try to see the better side of people only to later find out how much of a toll they were taking on my mental health and my nervous system. But I was lucky.

in the grand scheme of things because this was a very part-time job and I rarely had to be face-to-face with these owners. Unfortunately, I know that a lot of people find themselves in a similar, if not way worse, situation and feel stuck in what their options are, knowing they really can’t just up and quit their job with nothing lined up. Well, you can, but you need the savings to support you for probably six to nine months, if not more. So I figured

Why not bring on someone who can help you turn your shitty situation around and find the signs and symptoms to look out for in an interview process with the hopes that you don’t find yourself in another toxic workplace later on, or even just prevent yourself from ever getting into one in the first place. So Dr. Kristi K. Taylor, founder of Work Solutions, LLC, and Work Global News Magazine has lectured at Yale University.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (01:41.262)
Thank you.

Jess Diamond (01:53.656)
was named one of Harvard’s Women in Higher Educational Leadership, and is a Higher Education Leadership Fellow. A military veteran, author, and certified professional career and executive coach, Dr. Taylor specializes in career branding, DEIA, and organizational development services. She utilizes her work REBT framework to build resilient teams. Dr. Taylor has facilitated workshops for organizations like Walmart and Pathways to Housing DC,

and has been a featured guest on multiple podcasts and summits. Hi, Dr. Christy Taylor, and welcome to How to 20 something.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (02:29.742)
I just, and I can say that I have 20 something two times in my life, because I’m in my 40s. So I’ve done it twice. So I’m coming into this conversation today with lots of experience and I’m really looking forward to chatting with you and sharing some insights with your audience.

Jess Diamond (02:46.562)
Yeah, I’m excited to hear everything you’re about to share with me and my audience. So on that note, I want to start with asking you what is the first thing you would tell someone to do or even think if they believe their workplace is toxic.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (03:03.182)
Okay, so one of the things is you really have to trust your instinct, right? So I have done this and I’m sure just you have done this. We go into these environments and so I was working a job once where I was like, I’m gonna be here for 20 years and it was toxic from day one and I felt it in my gut. The vibes were totally off but I was like, and in fact it was my first federal job.

And I was like, yes, I got to make this a career, right? Before, you know, all of the shifts started to happen. This was a few years ago. So all of these shifts are happening now. But this was a few years ago. And I was like, I’m going to make this work. It was toxic from day one. And I knew it in my gut. And I think that sometimes, well, I come from a different generation. But sometimes our parents raise us to like, once you get that good job where you can build a career, you stay, right?

But you need to trust your gut. You need to trust your instincts. So that’s the first thing that I will tell you that if you feel it from day one, if you feel it in the interview, if you know something is off, don’t try to convince yourself that you need this opportunity, right? And you can just survive it. Because once you tell yourself that I can survive, what are you, I mean, you haven’t been hit by a car. It’s not a, you know, a 911 situation. get it. Sometimes we need a job because we got to pay the bills, right?

But in your 20 something, in your 20s, most of the time you might be just graduating college or trade school, whatever it is, or you’re still experimenting trying to figure out what it is that you want to do. And so you just need to trust your instinct going into that situation and don’t try to convince yourself that is not what you are feeling, that you’re seeing this with your own eyes, you are feeling it. And then you are probably wondering why, is why?

Why is everybody that they hire? Why are they leaving so quickly and you’re noticing the pattern? So those are things I would say pay attention to trust you gut Notice the patterns and do not try to convince yourself. Well, I have to be here because I have to do this for 2030 You don’t have to do anything. You can move on you don’t have to subject yourself You don’t have to survive. What you tell yourself. I’m gonna survive a job I mean my god, we survive here can’t tornadoes floods. We should have to survive a job

Jess Diamond (05:19.364)
Yeah, I agree. But if someone is in in over their head, and they’re already kind of a couple months in and they feel like they’ve committed to this job, like how do they what do they do? What is the first thing that they can do to help themselves get out of it other than the obvious answer of like, go update your resume.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (05:37.902)
Well, that actually is the answer. So one, you have to accept that, okay, look, cause this is the thing, right? You recognize this pattern and you know that this is not the…

This is not the right situation for you. And so the first thing I would say is look for ways to strategically manage your own mental health. You know, do you need to report it to HR? Do you need to, is it your manager, like are there processes within your organization that will allow you to work through that? Because it could be a couple of different things, right? One could be the relationship that you have with your manager and team, which could be causing a toxic environment or the work environment as a whole. And I’ve dealt with all of this because what do you do when the work environment adds

a hole is toxic right is it going to do you any good to just report it to HR? It’s not necessarily right so you have to kind of

get a lay of the land, understand the dynamics that you’re working with, and then take proactive steps to, the second thing would be to take those proactive steps to manage your mental health. Take care of you first, because not everybody is in a situation where you can just quit. Now, I’ll tell you a quick story. I remember in my 20s, there was a job that I was working. It was my first job outside of the military, right? And I remember I wanted to interview to become a school teacher, and I was working at a call center.

at this time. And you know what I did? I wanted to go to this interview so bad, but that job that I was working, they would not let me off. It was not the best environment. I called my mom and was like, can I quit? And my mama said yes. And I walked in and I quit. who would? That was just luck of the draw rate. Like not everybody’s parents are going to be able to like, I was like, mom, I can just, can I just quit? if I, if I, if it doesn’t work out, if this interview doesn’t work out for me to be a school teacher, and I’m happy to say that it did work out, cause I walked in quick.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (07:28.878)
went to the interview, became a fourth grade school teacher and did that for a few years. But that was just love of the draw, right? And so what do you do? Because not everybody, when you’re in those environments can suddenly just go, well, I quit or I’m gonna call my mom. So the first thing is to see what processes, scan the environment to kind of see, it like the team? Is it the culture? Because that’ll kind of give you some insight into what you can do within the workplace. But then also,

I wanna say number two, but this is really number one. It’s like one and one, and nick, right? Take care of yourself. Take those mental steps to take care of yourself and put some boundaries in place. If you know you work from eight to five, if the expectation is for you to work from eight to seven, but the hours are eight to five.

you are going to just have to put some boundaries in place. You turn that phone off at eight to five. I know some people now who are forced to go back into the office and you know they’re doing, they’re leaving the phones and the computers at the office, right? Because it’s like, well, since I have to be here from eight to five, then this is what I’m doing. Because usually I would do more. So put those boundaries in place. And then the third thing really,

is for you to get that resume together because you do need to start making a plan to exit because you can follow the proper protocols for recording.

Taking it up the chamber again. What if it’s the entire workplace culture, right? That’s having an impact on you You have to proactively be taking care of your mental health and making a plan to shift yourself out of that situation strategically not just based on emotions because the truth is Rent is $2,000, know, wherever you live, right? So you want to have a plan and a strategy and one thing the other thing I would tell you if you know that you have to kind of ride this out for a little bit Look at all of the benefits

Dr. Kristy Taylor (09:18.54)
of this workplace? Do they pay for you to get to upskill? Like do they have a professional development fund that you can take advantage of while you’re trying to look for your next job? Use all of that because if they’re milking you, milk that situation for what it’s worth and at least, you know, get something out of it as you are looking to make your transition. Like be strategic about it. Don’t just do what I did. Call my mom and say, can I walk in and quit, right? If you can, do that. But if you can, realistically, right?

be strategic about how you begin the process of exiting, but make sure that you keep your mental health as a priority.

Jess Diamond (09:56.44)
so glad you said that because I preach how important it is to plan things out. have an episode coming out. think it’s by the time we record this, it’s the episode that’ll come out after this one and it’s on quitting. And it’s like, you need your plan to be a successful quitter. So it’s having that in mind, but I want to go back to the setting boundaries because a lot for a lot of 20 somethings, like we’re so new to our career that it is.

terrifying to set boundaries and while yes, it’s like, hey, just fire me. I hate working here anyways, or like it’s not a good environment for me anyway. So I don’t care if I lose it. It’s like at the end of the day, we do care because you’re in a lease. You need to pay your bills. Like your life still goes on. And that’s part of that plan is like, you still have to do your job so that you can make that escape plan to get out. So when it comes to those boundaries, what are some, what are some ways we can help the 20 somethings?

Dr. Kristy Taylor (10:33.655)
Yes.

Jess Diamond (10:51.576)
be more confident in setting workplace boundaries without that fear of they’re going to lose their job knowing that this is coming from a toxic workplace situation.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (11:03.042)
Well, one of the things is that you have to learn to become, you have to work on becoming more emotionally intelligent. And a lot of emotional intelligence, actually people talk great game about it and read great books and you can do that. But a lot of that comes with, we become more resilient as people because it comes with the experience. And that’s, that is actually what helps to develop our emotional intelligence. Right. And so putting some of those boundaries in places like knowing not to respond to something out of emotions. So when you get that sassy email, you know,

take a step back, don’t respond immediately, right? Don’t instigate it. even now, someone who’s a coach and who still, I’m actively in the workplace still.

take a step back before you respond to something that emotionally triggers you and craft a more strategic approach to it because that is one of the pitfalls, right? When we kind of be in these environments and we’re getting these nasty grams as I would say, you want to respond or you kind of spend all day in your head replaying the, I should have said this to could have, would have, or I should have did this, right? But you have to just know that.

The energy we put out is the energy that we get back. So we have to leave with some level of kindness, right? Because what does it matter if you’re already making a transition that Becky emailed you at 2.15 and said something snarky to you? You get off at three. Just let it sit there. And the other thing is when you are being given tons and tons of work.

And it’s like, well, you already gave me. And I think that that, especially in my 20s, that’s something I dealt with where I’m trying to learn to move up. I’m trying to build a career. These are things I want. And then the work is piling up. And that is where a big piece of not setting boundaries really came back to burn me because you get burned out. And I know I noticed this with a lot of my younger clients. So you have to go to that supervisor and go. So, you know, we have.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (13:02.99)
these competing priorities, right? You can say it in a non-emotional way. So think about this though. if you’re my, if I’m your supervisor and I’m giving you four projects that are all back to back, you’re going to feel so overwhelmed with that, right? And for you, I would recommend

And if you came to me, it’s like, I cannot do this so much. It’s stressing me out. What if you came to me as your supervisor? Well, you can come to me like that, just because I’m a competition, I understand. But some people, you can’t.

But if you come to the hiring the supervisor is kind of like, okay So we have four projects that are competing priorities and I know that they are each one of these is Top priority, right? But I’m not gonna be able to land this plane without us having Actually choosing a priority. So there’s only 40 hours in a work week Which one of these would you like me to deliver first? Right going in there and rationalizing

with that individual. And then you also, when you work in a toxic work environment, you need to just make sure that you’re keeping great email documentation. Okay? And the biggest thing about these environments is managing your emotions. I once had a supervisor that seemed to giving me, I mean, 20 projects back to back. And I’m like, wait, first of all, and if I get off at five o’clock, would call me at 458 and want to have a long meeting.

And I’m just like, hey, I get off at five o’clock, can we continue this tomorrow at nine? The other thing is the pressure to respond. And I love this, if you feel, so I say, don’t respond to some emails, but then sometimes we get these emails at the end of the day and we’re still trying to prove ourself as a hard worker. You might craft an email or do a project.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (15:00.29)
But don’t show that you were working past five o’clock at this hour. Schedule the email to go off to be sent off at 10 o’clock the next morning. You see what I mean? Schedule it. If I get off at five, I’m not sending emails after five o’clock.

So do you have to learn to understand your landscape and manage your emotions? Don’t bust, if you already know it’s a toxic environment, don’t bust in the supervisor officer though, and just let them see all of these emotions. Just manage it and say, you you’ve given me multiple projects this week and realistically, some of these things I’m not gonna be able to get done. So which one would you like me to prioritize? Right? And then keep it strictly between eight and five.

if it’s that toxic of an environment. Even if you have to send an email to go out at 801, the next morning, right? Show no weakness.

Jess Diamond (15:53.558)
Yeah, I will say managing your emotions and your reactions is probably going to be one of the toughest things because you’re already on high alert, you’re already unhappy, there’s already negative emotions boiling inside of you. And when you get that email from that person that is not treating you well, or that you do not get along well with, it’s it you’re already reading that email with a story.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (16:02.296)
Yep.

Jess Diamond (16:18.462)
And that story is them in a bad light of them like nitpicking you or nagging you or yelling at you or just being a bitch to you. Like whatever it is, you already have that in your head when you go to read an email and that’s only going to enhance your emotions and like your emotional response to that email or to that text or to that phone call. So it is reminding yourself, I still have to remind myself of this, that even with a friend that I need to not respond when I’m feeling

any emotion besides excited or happy or neutral. So if there’s any anxiety or stress or sadness or anger that’s in me, I constantly have to remind myself of like, hey, don’t respond because it’s not going to be with your best thought process coming forward. It’s not going to come across well. You have to separate yourself and your emotions from the situation and from the workplace. And that comes with taking a break, taking a timeout, taking a breath.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (17:05.155)
Yeah.

Jess Diamond (17:17.16)
and coming back when you are at that net neutral ground, like ground zero of, okay, I’m not feeling reactive anymore. I can now compose a message that I can send to this person and not have any emotional attachments to that message either.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (17:33.518)
I think that we should go into jobs like we’re consultants. That’s kind of how I look at every job, right? Like I, no matter what job I’m in, it’s like, I’m a consultant here. So it’s kind of like at the end of the day, the check is going to clear and you know, and what is it that you would like me to do? And I will deliver on that. I think what ends up happening to us is that we get so, especially when you’re in your 20s, you get so overly invested.

And I work in social impact. And people can get so overly invested in their emotions and the passion for what they’re doing. Like, I know you’re personal trainer. You want everybody to be, you want everybody to be, but you know, the thing about it is like, consider yourself as a consultant.

They’re paying you to do a thing. And then that allows you to separate yourself. I have been in situations where I go, got great ideas about how to move something, how we can move forward. And the no will hit me right in the face. And you have to be prepared for that. And I’m like, I’m OK with no. Because at the end of the day, this is my job. But I’m more of a consultant. Because think about it. You’re only going to be in these positions for two or three years or a year or two. And then you move on. Even if you stay for 20 years, you’re a consultant.

You consider yourself like that where I’m taking ownership, but then there’s a level of guidance. And then the other piece I would tell you too, to your point about when you work in a toxic work environment, not only controlling your emotions about how you respond, but also who you talk to. Keep in mind that you have no friends in your workplace. That’s just my perspective. I definitely have people that I’ve connected with, gotten along with as colleagues. in my younger days, I will say, cause I was in, and when I first started my career, I was in the military. It was like, we,

Best job of my life, working in the internal medicine clinic. It was about 15 of us in that clinic. They were all in the ages of 19 to 24. So we got to grow and learn together. So in that piece, there was no frenemies type of thing, right? Because I think the military is a totally different vibe. But as I’ve gone out into my career, once I left, I got out when I was about 24,

Dr. Kristy Taylor (19:43.994)
got off of active duty and had to enter the, we would say public sector workplace, these corporate environments, then you start to learn a little bit different. So part of your, what you owe to yourself is right, is to have you a support system outside of work where when it’s all burning down and it’s like total hot shit, then you have somebody that you can call, but you definitely don’t want to vent to a person in a workplace because you might think that that’s safe.

because they’re having a bad day too, but then that can come back to haunt you. At work, the consultant doesn’t engage in that, right? You as the consultant, don’t engage you as the person, whatever you consider yourself. It’s just like, okay. And then that helps you to manage your emotions. I know for me, once I started looking at myself like, you know what? I’m more of a consultant. Like I’m going to do an excellent job on everything, but I know that I’m dispensable.

Keep that in mind. And that kind of helps you. There’s no reason to feel like you got to respond right away to somebody’s passionate email that was probably disrespectful. And also, depending on who that person was, you can also consult with your supervisor or, again, unless the person is your supervisor. So just know how to manage and maneuver through those types of conversations.

Jess Diamond (21:03.938)
Yeah, I love that you said like, don’t gossip or vent to your coworkers because you really don’t know what they could have a hidden agenda. It could, as you said, it could come back to bite you. And just another way to think about it is you’re adding toxicity to the already toxic situation. So don’t be that extra dose. There’s already enough there. We want to remove yourself from it. that is part of that is like finding that support system outside of your work that you can vent to that.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (21:21.005)
Right?

Jess Diamond (21:33.27)
is not going to come around and bite you in the butt later on where it’s like, you you were talking blah, blah about so and so and then it just gets messy because then the other person is not going to own up and be like, yeah, I was also contributing to that conversation because that they’ll just be throwing themselves under the bus. And at the end of the day, everyone is in it for themselves. Doesn’t matter how helpful someone is or how nice or how friendly they are in it for themselves. They’re going to protect themselves before they protect you.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (22:02.062)
1000 % right. And don’t vent on, my gosh. And I’ve seen this because, you know, with my background being in social impact, I have taught a lot of healthcare classes. My doctorate is in health science, but I focus on career coaching so much that people have forgotten what my actual purpose is. I work in HR, doctorate in health science. But.

I used to tell my students, know, even when you have bad days at work, don’t get about it on social media. Don’t add people from your job to your social media. And even when you leave, you can find me on LinkedIn, but I’m probably not gonna add you. I’m not adding you on Facebook.

Right? You know, keep your key. think you really, should, this is just my perspective, right? You take ownership of the roles that you have and always look at yourself like being dispensable, kind of like as a consultant. Cause at the end of the day, you’re going to do the job that or whatever the vision of the leader that you’re working for, you’re going to push that forward. And then the second thing is like, you have to be in two different modes. Like, and I know if you work from home, it’s super hard to separate the two, but you have to have your work life and you have to have.

your regular life and your regular life is where your your support system is the people who you come to I have my best friend and when stuff is a hot mess I don’t care if it’s 10 o’clock at night. I will call her. I don’t care I don’t care if I have to just send her a voice message Like instead of a text right it could be told but you got to have a person that you can vent to because as you see it right that workspace is Really just focused on work get the job done

And then five o’clock or six o’clock, whenever you leave, log off. But even if you’re working a little extra, unless it was to meet a deadline, like you had to get it in that day, if I get up at five and I’m working, sometimes I will, I’ll work to six or seven o’clock. I’m gonna schedule an email to go out nine o’clock the next morning, right? Because that was my choice to work those extra hours, not because I’m being forced to, you because I, you know.

Jess Diamond (24:12.034)
Yeah, and you don’t want to set that expectation of, yeah, I stayed on till seven because a lot of employers would be like, well, you stayed on till seven this time, so you should be able to stay on till seven every single day. And it’s like, no. So yeah, I think it’s more so of don’t set the expectations that you don’t want to.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (24:14.156)
Right.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (24:19.906)
Damn it.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (24:29.138)
that you’re gonna, that was the perfect wording for it. Cause sometimes you do, you like, know, when you’re in a learning curve, you will work a little extra. And this is the thing about me being a coach, right? Because some coaches will be like, no, if you work from eight to five, you work, yes, I’m like that. But I also know that you might be experienced in a learning curve. might, there might be some things, sometimes you are there, but because you don’t want to set the expectation, don’t feel compelled like.

Well, I need to send this email to let them know that I was working at 8.30 at night. No, you don’t. Just schedule it to go out at night, something more natural, 9 or 10 the next morning.

But I don’t even want to get into that dynamic with you. We’re talking about it. I don’t even want to get into the dynamic with you because if you’re in a toxic work environment, your focus should not be working, learning that extra piece, right? Your focus is managing my mental health, creating my plan to exit. And if they have an opportunity for me to upscale while I’m here, since they are milking me, I’m going to milk them. I’m going to get that extra certification, take a clap, whatever. So think about it like that.

Jess Diamond (25:34.456)
Well, we’ve been saying toxic work environment a lot so far through this episode, but can you in your own words define what that is? You can give examples. So know it’s going to vary depending on what it is. You mentioned like it could be the environment itself. It could be a supervisor. It could be HR. It could be anything, but

Dr. Kristy Taylor (25:37.944)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (25:53.166)
It’s literally anything that you just listed. Those are the things. Okay, so look, first of all, when you go into these companies, you should research. A lot of times we’re so excited to get a job that we don’t look on places like PayScale, Glassdoor, LinkedIn, right? And when you go into the interview, I pay attention. How is the interview process? Again, is the vibe off? So going into that, are they?

When you go into an interview or even if you get the job, maybe the interview went great, you get the job because this could happen either way. And they’re trashing folks that used to work there. To you during the interview or you maybe you went to orientation and they’re a trashing. How was the orientation? Oh my God. Was that, was that good? You know what I mean? Was that a good experience for you? Okay. Oh, my all time favorite, which is usually a telltale sign.

Welcome to the team Jess, we’re a family here. Family and it’s like, okay, and then that is going to tell you a friend like, okay, how much family are we? Cause we, know, cause is that whole like that worth life balancing where you’re expecting me to work to seven or eight, nine o’clock at night because we’re so family. No, you right. Or you have to keep asking.

I’m just telling you the stuff that’s up front, right? You have to keep asking, okay, so what exactly is my role? Because this was the job description, right? But you’re a little unclear on what your role is or, another. You know, everybody here works hard, plays hard, right? We work long hours, we play, and they’re excited to tell you that this is a hustle culture. We work hard, play hard.

You know, everybody’s on the grind. No, that means everybody’s burnt out. So those are some of the things that, you know, this telling you a little bit about the culture. You’re asking questions. not. And I’m talking about in the very beginning, right? You’re asking questions. The information is inconsistent. And I mean, overall people just look miserable. So pay attention to that. You’re touring the building and people just look miserable. Now you start the job. And again, they’re like, welcome to the team, Jess.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (28:10.854)
We’re a family here. This is a everybody works hard, but we play hard. Well, okay You know we work hard between nine and five right because you know, and then there’s no boundaries I We talked a lot about the time

I remember being a supervisor and being that person sending emails at two o’clock in the morning. And I thought I was being an example supervisor. No harm intended, but it was causing harm because I thought, I’m leading by example because I just want them to know that I’m working. That was not good. OK, looking back on that now. And this is why I totally reversed that. mean, and you and if you in terms of communication, like overbearing. I once had a supervisor who would text me.

call me, email me. It would be like in this sequence. One time, it was so bad one morning. I literally rolled out of my own driveway and hit a parked car. Cause I was, I was so like, my God, it is six in the morning and she’s already sent like three emails. So the poor leadership, which we already know, are you getting micromanaged? Is it clear that the boss is playing?

favorites with people Are people allowed to take credit for your work because we’ve had that? Where front will is like we’re a team, but you know you did all the work Right and then you’re gonna be able to do that for so long And I think the the last couple of things I would say is how you’re feeling I mean, are you feeling burnt out? Are you feeling drained or exhausted and then there are the operational things that we pay attention to?

Any organizations like again pay attention are people as soon as people hire they’re quitting right? Is there not if you get the job and you ask about opportunities to grow your career because maybe you you coming in it’s like That answers vague and you get then you you clearly see that there’s no path forward and that’s what you should be looking for in your 20s You’re looking for that path 40 opportunity and the last thing I’m gonna say because I know it’s controversial right now, but

Dr. Kristy Taylor (30:26.082)
There’s no diversity. You don’t wanna work with people who all look the same and think the same, right? We want diverse perspective. wanna work with, just me, at least I would say, I wanna work with people from different cultures, diverse perspectives. I wanna know that as a woman that I can move up in the organization that I could, so those are the things that you should be checking. okay, one minute, because I feel like I’ve been waiting for somebody to ask this question all your life.

Oh, my life, right? And so when you kind of get that little feeling of, is not right, you should be asking yourself a couple questions. Like, do I feel safe here? Is this a place I can grow? And most importantly, do I feel respected? And if you don’t, that’s when you start making sure you’re taking care of your mental health. And it’s like, OK, I’m not going to be able to be here long.

You start the catapult, you’re insane.

Jess Diamond (31:27.94)
Yeah, there’s so much I could unpack from everything you just said, because it’s why I just have examples of I know I have a client who was interviewing with a company. I’m not going to say it’s a known company. So I’m not going to say the name interviewing with the company made it to second round, third round, fourth round. And then they’re like, Okay, we’re gonna have an answer for you by Friday. Friday comes no answer. They’re like, Oh, on Monday, reach out. hadn’t heard back. It’s like, Oh, we’ll have an answer for you later this week.

And it was just like stringing him along. he was, it was, and I explained to him, it like, he’s, they’re treating you like a, they’re the fuck boy. That they’re like, yeah, I mean, like, I’ll, I’ll hit you up when I want to, but like, just like, you’re my side piece, like you’re not the real thing.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (32:08.866)
Yeah, not respecting you. And what are you having to go through four, five, six interviews? This is something I tell my clients, right? First of all, if you go to the interview and they say, this is the biggest red flag ever, if they go, because think about this, if you work in tech or process improvement, what they want you to do, you know, build a workflow or something. And they say,

Great job, Jess. What we want you to do for the next round of interviews is we’re gonna give you a project and we want you to build a sample model, da da da, right? And it’s like, you want me to work for free?

Dr. Kristy Taylor (32:53.112)
Cause most likely that project is a problem that’s happening within their organization. And I had a client and I told him that I said, Hey, they have, they have tests. They have things that they can do to test your skillset. Plus you’re coming here with a strong resume and great references with people who can attest that you know how to build these workflows. It’s very apparent. I said, if you go to that interview and they give you a project that takes you three hours, they’re looking for free work.

And you know what? The client did it anyway. And you know what happened? They took his project and then told him, Oh, you know, we’re going to continue to interview other people.

And I was like, what they just got from you was free work. So pay attention to that, because that is something that gets so many of my young clients caught up older too. Because I happen to say like, look, it’s one thing for them to give you like an actual test or to be asking you questions during the interview, right? And even with me working in higher education, they’ll want to see like a sample teaching, you know, that and that’s okay. But if you asked me to put together an entire project, then you should be paying me as a consultant. That tells you too, a lot about the work environment.

You shouldn’t have to do five, seven, 10 interviews for what? $100,000, $80,000? You don’t have to be, no.

Jess Diamond (34:14.722)
Yeah, well, I think the hardest part is that you don’t know what you don’t know. And being in your 20s is there’s a lot of career development and learning experiences that are coming your way. And we want to help you guys mitigate some of the pitfalls that maybe we’ve experienced. We don’t want that for you. But it’s, I know from the mindset of I just want a job because I was in that position when I graduated college, I spent the whole summer interviewing places, not hearing back, just

Dr. Kristy Taylor (34:18.722)
Great.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (34:30.382)
You

Jess Diamond (34:43.746)
trying to get that first job, that first foot through the door that I accepted the first one I could get. Luckily it was not toxic, but it was less than ideal. I was still unhappy. It wasn’t draining me emotionally, but I was bored out of my mind. But it is hard. It’s hard to not want to just take that first job that gives you a bite because you’re like, I just want something. I want something because something is better than nothing. And that’s where…

Dr. Kristi and I are trying to tell you like, no, sometimes nothing is better than the toxic something. And you do need to trust your gut and listen to your instincts. And if you’re not enjoying the interview process, if you’re feeling anxious, it’s similar to dating. If you’re feeling anxious when you’re first starting out dating someone, they are not for you. If you are feeling anxious, waiting to hear back from an interviewer that said they would get back to you on Friday, and you heard nothing, and all of sudden, it’s 8pm on Friday, and you’re shitting your pants through the whole weekend.

It is not a job for you. And you have to acknowledge that and own that and move on.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (35:49.326)
Cause I remember when I got my first teaching job, right? And the principal was like, I’m going to call you on Friday. I had already quit.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (35:59.79)
I told my mom, said, well, I’ll quit it. But you know what she did? She called me the following Wednesday. And I think I might have, so here’s the thing. They’re not going to always follow up with you on that Friday. But to your point, it’s about managing your emotions, right? You can email them and say, cause actually in that situation, she hired somebody to teach the first grade and she fired the person who was teaching fourth grade.

Gave me their jobs. I eat it with a bitter situation right because I love my four friends So in that case it’s about managing your emotions You’ve gone through this interview process This is what happens People because you write you need that job and I see even people my age do this you need that job so bad So you start to get emotionally attached to this is this has to be the one this

The interview was so good, right? And then they don’t call. And that is why on Friday at eight o’clock you want to go to a happy hour that lasts all weekend because you’re depressed, right? Because you did that to yourself. And that is why, right? Because you need that job so bad that you, you, you know what? They, I put my resume in and they called me the next day. And so the interview went, what’s then what happens when they don’t call you back?

So you have to just look at every interview as an opportunity. Don’t get him. And I know when you need the job. Hey, I just was in a situation where I lost my job and I had to start over this year. So, you know, it’s like, OK, every every time. But I guess I’m seeing that enough now as a coach where it’s like not every interview. But I have been like that before. Where it’s like I needed a job. And so I just noticed it was like call all your friends and be like, hey, I know that they’re going to call me back and then they don’t call you by Friday at five.

Who did that? You did that to yourself. So you have to look at that opportunity. It’s just like, okay, if it was for me, they’re gonna call it. What you gotta do, and that’s the military department, you gotta keep moving, right? And you gotta say, okay, well.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (38:03.148)
Because in that situation, hey, I was called back with a better job, you know, because it didn’t happen exactly the I And the other thing I was going to say in response to you is you are so right. When you are desperate for a job, it’s like, OK, I would just take the first thing that they offer. Now, here’s the one thing I’m going to say, because I always say don’t move any motions. Consider your options there, right? And so at that point in time, might not be another option. But like you say, it’s a job.

where you were not necessarily miserable, right? And so you needed a job. So in those cases as a coach, I would say, okay, you took it as a start point. know, it’s just a life comes and ebbs and flows and sometimes the eb, you just have to take the eb because as long as it is not toxic, then you have to look at your own mindset and go, you know what? This is not what I want to be doing right now, but I can learn something from…

this experience is gonna help me to build my resume. When I first got out of the military and I was working at that call center in my 20s, oh my God, it’s up, okay? I had a master’s degree. I was so clueless. got into the military. And I tell this story all the time about how I was on active duty, did not have a clue.

thought that I was getting out of the military and was like, yeah, I have my master’s degree that Uncle Sam has paid for and I’m gonna get my first job. This was in 2008, making $60,000. Okay, first of all, I was so clueless. Could not find a job to save my life. I feel like I put in a thousand applications. And I remember going to this temp agency and I go in there high and mighty.

And I’m telling you just like this, yes, know, I have my master’s degree because I was 24 and I’m looking for a job that pays $60,000 a year. And the lady was like, we ain’t got that. I was like, okay, 55. No, don’t, okay, 50, 45, 40. And I’m seriously like 39, but 35.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (40:15.566)
It’d be like $28,000 a year or whatever. yeah, and I was like, well, $28,000? And she was like, and I literally was just going, I went from 60 to 28, she was like, yeah, we have something like that. And it was a call center. And I was like, oh my God. But I took it, right? But in that meantime, to build my skill set up, I was volunteering. was, I was, I’m at.

health-educated health science specialist. So was volunteering. I was doing all of the things around it so that I could build my skill set up. Cause I was like sleeping on somebody’s couch at the time. I needed to get an apartment, a place to live.

I had to get a job, right? just sometimes we have to make those decisions, but continue to do the things that’s gonna build your skill set up. So I was volunteering as a health educator in the community and working on getting my teaching license. And then within like, I didn’t even work that job. I worked it six months and the universe always pays it forward.

when you do the work to work on yourself and continue to evolve and keep a positive attitude. So by the time I walked in there and was like, Hey, call my mom. It’s like, can I quit please? Embedded all, I still, had the credentials in place, you know, and I had some different experiences because I had been volunteering. So that’s my point, right? Sometimes you do kind of have to take that job that comes as long as they ain’t making you miserable. Cause it went towards the end till it was making me miserable. But when I first got it, I was just glad to have a job. know what I

Jess Diamond (41:46.476)
Yeah, but like even still you were building your escape plan outside of that job.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (41:49.524)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that’s what you should be doing.

Jess Diamond (41:53.25)
Yeah, I want to focus on saying like, you’re the interview process was clean. You’re the first six months of the job was great. And just what maybe it’s like new management took over. Maybe it’s just you’re in a different position. Maybe you’re moved to a different team. Maybe it just all of a sudden, the honeymoon phase is done. And you are realizing you are pretty deep into not a great workplace situation. How

can someone tell the difference between being resilient and staying somewhere that’s actively harming their growth and well-being? Because there’s both types of stress that are happening. There’s both levels of unhappiness, but how do you tell whether it’s like, I need to be resilient and this will help me grow, or this is actually harming me and is not helping me grow?

Dr. Kristy Taylor (42:38.252)
It goes back to what the very first answer that I gave you. of all, I guarantee just it didn’t just pop up pop up positive as today is toxic, right? It was there but the whole six months, you know how you meet that guy or person that you’re dating and it’s like, this is the one.

She’s the one, he’s the one and you just so in love because of all the butterflies and then all of a sudden, he says something crazy to you or you say something crazy and it’s just, it throws off the vibe.

See, the toxicity was there all along, but you were so in the romantic phase that you didn’t see it. Unless we do, now there are some instances where leadership changes, right? And they usher in a toxic era. Cause I’ve had that too, work, great work environment. We get new leadership and we walk into a toxic era. That one, I’m going to answer for you straight on. If you start to see that shift,

And you know that you don’t want to deal with that. You need to start making an exit plan because the holistic answer to your question is what I said in the very beginning. What you’re feeling on the inside with your gut when you start to try to convince yourself that I can survive this, the word survive. You’re telling yourself I’m surviving a job? No, you survive plane crashes. You survive.

Maybe being broke for a season but your but was that that the survivor, right? But you’re but your work life should not be like being what’s that show alone and naked, you know or naked and afraid right or being placed on an island and in Fighting the last like that your work life is not an episode of survivor and once you start telling yourself that that’s when you are going from it’s

Dr. Kristy Taylor (44:33.752)
Cause I think that what people misconceived what resiliency is. We feed ourself for a narrative. And this is where I’m also a mindset coaching. is where when you talk about my framework is the REBT stands for rational emotive behavior therapy. And I’m going to correct something here. That framework is called the REBT DEIA framework.

I the name to the work REBT framework because I wanted to be politically correct, but I’m just gonna change that shit back to what it was. Okay. Which is the REBT DEI framework because we need diversity of thought and diversity of people. But the most important component here is rational, emotive behavior theory, I challenge clients to take a deep dive into understanding what is causing you to feel the way that you feel.

And I want to just make sure that you understand that sometimes we convince ourselves that we have to go through something to become more resilient.

Life is going to naturally throw a lot of bullshit at you. And I’m only cussing because you let me, right? It’s naturally going to throw a lot of BS at you. Why would you want to put yourself through something to show that, you know, I mean, you’re, know, I get it. If I’m in the military, I’m going through bootcamp. That was a, that was a choice, right? That I made. But we convinced ourselves like, I got to, I have to be in this. No, because life is going to happen. It’s crappy enough.

And through the experiences that you have in life, like even when you take a shot on yourself or you do something that you’ve never done, those are gonna be the natural experiences that will help you to become more resilient and to mature and become more emotionally intelligent. So I don’t know why people think that I have to be in a work environment and I have to survive this. Like I’m on some island.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (46:34.102)
because that’s going to help me be more resilient. So first of all, just redefine what it is to be resilient. Resiliency comes through experience, but it doesn’t have to be always self-imposed experiences, right? And once you can distinguish that, then it goes back to that question, the way that I answered that question earlier. You see all the signs, you have the good feeling that you just need to follow that process of taking care of your mental health and start to transition out. And if you can’t,

transition out immediately, right? Then you have to make sure that you are strategically managing the boundaries, that you are making sure you’re taking care of your mental health. And it is just a place where I clock in, I do the job, I go home because I’m here for the check, nothing else. I’m still gonna always be looking, because that’s the truth, right? Like you can make a strategic plan, but it might take six months, a year to find a job.

And so you have to be taking care of yourself and managing that, but don’t feed yourself to be as lying that I have to survive this like I’m on some island. No, you don’t. You don’t have to be disrespected, right? Cause life is going to throw in the, live long enough. You’ll get, you, you’re going to become more resilient naturally.

Jess Diamond (47:50.252)
Yeah, it’s funny because with my f 45 situation, it was new management took over like new owners bought the franchise of the studio that I was working at. And it came with the reputation that they are crazy. And they were and right at the start, I was going through my own personal things and they were adding, they were making all of these changes with no explanation. And it was very abrupt as in within the first five days of them taking over, they wanted to change everything. And I was like, I

do not have the capacity to put up with this. So I actually talked to the female owner and was like, hey, I’m gonna put in my two weeks. And she was like, whoa, why? Like, cause mind you, at this point, six trainers had already quit the second these owners took over. It was a whole thing, but she was like, what’s going on? Like why, what can we do? And we actually talked it out. We had a 20 minute conversation. I felt heard. I understood her perspective. There was actual communication happening. And I was like, okay. And I stuck it out.

for a year and a half. And then at the start of this year, it blew up. I don’t know what changed besides their level of craziness, but it just escalated so much that I was under that level of stress again. I’m like, this is supposed to be my fun, turn my brain off, socialize, collect money, get out, job. It should not be causing me the level of stress and unhappiness that it is. And that was when I made that decision of, okay,

Well, it’s not getting better. The communication is zero with these owners. It’s only passive aggressive, and they won’t hear you out. There’s no compromise. Like it’s their way or the highway. And I was like, okay, take in the highway, then I’m out, it is time for me to go. But I’m in my late 20s. And I’m able to recognize when it’s time for me to leave and also be in a position where it was a part time job. And I can survive on income that I have from

my business and from personal training. But at the same time, was I don’t know if younger me would have been able to have that wherewithal or that strength to leave because yes, there’s strength in building up your resiliency and trying to see something through and being like, no, this will make me stronger. But there’s also strength in getting out. And it’s, and like, it’s protecting yourself. It’s going back to like making that plan. And I’ll remind you guys of my mental motto that I’ve used.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (50:01.038)
Thank

Dr. Kristy Taylor (50:04.468)
Exactly. Choosing you first.

Jess Diamond (50:14.752)
sporadically throughout the years of it’s not forever. It’s for now. Get go through it right now. But know that you have an end date, create the end date, create the plan and take action towards it so that you do get yourself out of this situation because it’s not helping you.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (50:19.33)
I loved it.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (50:30.988)
Yeah, my, my, my, my model literally is it will be different six months from now. My sister knows that she comes to me with something or when I always say, cause life will, it comes and ebbs and flows, right? And sometimes you’re in the flow and then sometimes it’s ebbs, ebbs. So I’ve been, and I’ve been through it and I’m going through it. Like, and it’s not like from a health perspective, you know, you know about the dimensions of wellness. I always say, if you look at the dimensions of wellness, it’s always like,

You got this eight slices of pie, right? Your intellect, physical, know, emotional. Somebody’s always taking a bite of your, slice of pizza, of your pizza pie. It’s something always happening. I will, I will say one piece of advice that I would give to you, because I don’t know your situation personally, right? But I think that one piece that applies to each of us is like, you saw that toxicity upfront and all these people leaving.

and you spoke up for yourself, which was the good thing, right? And where it went left was you saw it, you spoke up for yourself and you got comfortable in the comfortable. over that year and a half, I would have been, okay, what can they offer me here? Because you have to know that if life comes and ebbs and flows, so does work.

And so they listen, but at some point it was going to transition. I’m used to change because in the military, like every two years we get a new commander. Thank God I’ve always had great people that I’ve worked with, but it could go from like you being a great environment to get a new commander who’s like totally, you know, that person could be toxic as a leader. And I’ve never had that, but I’m just saying what I’m just showing you like the rate of change that can happen even in environments where I’ve worked in. But what happened was you got

because you had that 20 minute conversation which was positive and you spoke up for yourself. And then, and hey, I did that this year. Look, I had a job. I was so comfortable. was like, yeah, and this year I’m going to be doing beauty patches. I’m going to be traveling and doing all of this stuff. And then like I walked in one day and the job was gone. And I’m like, wait a minute.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (52:38.926)
You know what I mean? And so we all make that mistake of just getting comfortable in the comfortable. But that’s why I say you have to kind of look at yourself like, OK, I’m a consultant here because then you don’t get caught up in that environment. And then when something crazy happens, when it loops back around, it’s like, wait a minute now. OK, you already show me that you do this. This is before. All right. So I’m going to go ahead and leave on that note. I’m going to Right. And so.

Jess Diamond (53:06.006)
Yeah. Yeah, like, because they showed their two colors up front and I, but I felt heard and you’re I know, I can recognize I got comfortable. And I think a big trap that we fall into is we’re not in a great situation, but either we don’t know how to plan that exit, or we’re afraid of what’s next could be worse. And that’s what keeps us in this stuck like, no, it’s okay, I’ll put up with it like this. So it’s fine. It’s fine for right now. I’m

Dr. Kristy Taylor (53:10.594)
Yeah.

Jess Diamond (53:35.692)
I’m comfortable with this level of toxicity because I fear that if I go somewhere new, it’s just going to be worse. And maybe this is how it’s supposed to be. Maybe this is how work life is supposed to be. And Dr. Christy and I are here to tell you it’s not. And your job should not be causing you all of this stress. If you’re not a doctor or a surgeon or a lawyer and you’ve like other people’s lives on the line, it’s marketing. You’re in a marketing job or you’re working at a bank. It is not that serious.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (53:46.878)
Absolutely not.

Dr. Kristy Taylor (54:03.018)
It’s mindset, right? You should not have to… Why are we settling for this bull crap when we’re telling ourselves, well, it’s… I mean, it’s only a little toxic. Like, why are we doing it? And it’s because we need to… There are a million side hustles out here, okay? You can find, you know, but we get comfortable in the comfortable… And you gotta ask yourself, like, why am I comfortable with just, it’s only a little toxic. You know what I mean? Like, no, I don’t… I had to be here for eight hours a day or five hours and a half long.

don’t need any toxicity, okay? I don’t need any toxicity. mean, now look, in a workplace, there’s gonna be different dynamics because you’re dealing with people. And so every now and then conflict is a natural thing, but every day, no, I’m not. No man don’t have no turkey, I’m not doing it. You know mean? And so I think that too, you have to value yourself and examine your own mindset. So that is kind of like, okay, look.

I’m worth a thousand more. I am working here now because I need the cash. All right? But I am going to figure out, there is plenty of part-time opportunities. I’m going to figure out how to move on this. But just never get comfortable in the comfortable. Because even if you felt hurt, they already showed you who they were, right? And so.

Jess Diamond (55:21.08)
Yeah, well, I have one final question to wrap up this episode for you. And it’s are there any final piece of advice or just words of wisdom that you want to share with the 20 something listening who are feeling stuck in their career situation, even if it’s even if it’s not a toxic situation, but they just feel stuck with where they’re at? What what are some words you have for them?

Dr. Kristy Taylor (55:45.17)
Myron Goldin says I can’t take credit for this is that work is always working It’s either working for you or working on you and it’s funny because I call my business work solutions, right? But what he’s really referring to is the energy is always working energy your efforts that you put into something So if you are in a situation where you’re feeling stuck in your career

look for other opportunities to develop yourself. Look at your transferable skills because if you’re doing things like administration, project management, managing the schedule, managing people, those are things that you can take with you and move to, you can transition. And so, whereas in the past in my generation, the career was more…

kind of just like Baby Boomers where I’m expected to get a job and work and I’m a millennial, but I’m expected to get this job, work there, be there for 30 years. I mean, got kids that are getting rich off of TikTok. So it’s, your career trajectory is a different path than what previous generations were.

You can go out there and become viral and in an instance your life changes. So what I’m saying is don’t limit your own potential because you feel like that you need to be glued to a company, glued to this seat. Your talents itself, when you ball them up, they are transferable and you need to look at yourself as an asset. And it’s not just what you bring to that company, it’s also what this company does for you. you sometimes our biggest inhibitor, a roadblock is our mindset.

So if I’m in a job right now, so think about this in this economy there might not be currently in a lot of upward mobility, right? Because there’s a lot of people looking for jobs, but you guess what? This this happened in 2008 this happened before

Dr. Kristy Taylor (57:37.42)
History repeats itself over and over again. So what you should be doing in the downtime is to be preparing yourself up skilling. I’m always taking classes on places like Udemy, always leveraging transferable skills. So that is what I would tell is a piece of final advice that the energy is always working. It’s either working on you, meaning if you have a mindset where you feel like this is what you have to settle for, then that’s what you’re going to get. Right. But once you start to move in a different direction to control the dynamics that you can because you

and always change the immediate, but you can control some internal factors, then eventually that energy that you put out will start to propel you forward.

Jess Diamond (58:17.794)
Love it. Thank you, Dr. Christie, for being a guest on How to 20-Something and sharing all of your words of wisdom with us. Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you?

Dr. Kristy Taylor (58:29.454)
I’m gonna tell you just two simplest ways to find me work solutions calm you can type in WWW dot W or K calm or and they can be hit or miss but work solutions W or X W or X K is what I meant to say W or X K calm or W or X K solutions calm right and then on social media where work solutions on all social media and then you can find me on Instagram at doctor dot Christy Taylor

Jess Diamond (58:58.284)
All right, and her information will be listed in the show notes for you guys to access. But this does conclude another episode of how to 20 something. If you liked what you heard, if you learned something new, or if you or someone you know is in a toxic work environment and needs help getting out, then please pass this episode along. Share with a friend post on social media, just help me help as many 20 somethings as I can. And as always, I can’t wait to be in your headphones again next week with another brand new episode.

and stop.