Jess (00:00.98)
Welcome back to another episode of How to 20 something where today I brought on a guest to discuss mental health in your 20s. We all we are all very aware that since the pandemic we have been in a mental health crisis when we were sent home to work for what should have been two weeks but turned into a much longer time. As humans we’re wired for connection and when we were told to isolate we were stripped of all of our nurturing tendencies

without given the proper resources and tools to soothe ourselves, arguably because we aren’t supposed to have to soothe ourselves away from the rest of society. And by we, I do mean the 20 somethings listening. Even though I am well aware that mental health is a serious topic for every age group, today we’ll specifically be discussing how you can best support yourself in your 20s. As a coach for 20 somethings and a 20 something myself,

I’ve experienced firsthand effects of poor mental health. And when you don’t have positive mental health practices or support systems in place, then the world can become a very scary and dark place. So this episode is designed to help you understand all the realms of mental health, what self care really looks like, and how your ability to establish healthy boundaries and communication practices will support your mental health. So.

Who better to bring on to discuss these topics than a mental health counselor? Dr. Lauren Chase is a clinical mental health counselor, counselor, educator, and owner of Climbing Hills Counseling, a practice where she specializes in working with high achieving women to raise self-esteem and set stronger boundaries to live a more fulfilling life. In her free time, she likes to spend time with her dog, read historical fiction novels, and explore nature.

Hi, Dr. Lauren, welcome to How to 20 something.

Dr. Lauren Chase (01:54.67)
Thank you so much for having me on. I’m so excited to talk about mental health and kind of hopefully break some stigma with these topics and explore it further.

Jess (02:04.886)
Yeah, and we’re gonna start off with one of those topics right now. So I want to start with what intrigues me the most. And that is what self care is. And I say that because I think when the general person thinks of self care, it can range from eating right to taking a bubble bath to going for a walk. But overall, self care has become this buzzword in today’s world. And you say that so many people are unaware of what it is. So

What is self care and why is it important?

Dr. Lauren Chase (02:36.034)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the big myth with self-care is people believe that self-care is selfish, right? It’s selfish, but it’s not selfish. It’s about you and focusing on yourself so that you can be your best self with others. I think the big thing about self-care is, you know, it’s not all eating chocolates and bubble baths like we think about it. Yes, that’s great self-care, but it’s so much more than just that, right? There’s so many different aspects of self-care. There’s physical health, right? Working out.

you know, eating, you know, eating a balanced diet. There’s, you know, mental health self care. Is it seeing a therapist weekly or, you know, doing things for your spirituality like meditation? Right. There’s such a large range of self care that we often see in the media, you know, chocolates and bubble baths things like that, which is great. But it goes so much beyond that. It even starts with like basics of like making a doctor’s appointment for yourself yearly to take care of your physical health and doing those things.

for you because you deserve it.

Jess (03:35.648)
And why is that important for, mean, it feels like it feels like such a dumb question of, course it’s important to take care of yourself, but why is it important for 20 something listening to establish healthy self care practices?

Dr. Lauren Chase (03:48.81)
Absolutely. So I think the biggest thing of why it’s so important is burnout. And if you’re not familiar with burnout is, it’s just kind of like when we feel empty, when we’ve just really kind of worked ourselves, you know, whether that’s career burnout or personal burnout, or we just kind of feel empty. And I think the big thing with self care is preventing that burnout of like, when we don’t feel fulfilled, we don’t feel happy anymore, we feel like we’re kind of at the end of our rope there. And so I think the biggest thing with self care is just how do we prevent that burnout of getting to the end of our rope because

we might not be satisfied in every single area of our life. It might not be perfect. Because I think of the 20 something range of we’re working towards our career, we’re thinking out our friends, we’re thinking out our relationships, and we might not just be there yet. But self care helps us get there, helps us push through the hard times and the good times. And it really kind of just helps us get towards those goals in an easier way.

Jess (04:39.66)
Yeah, and you would mention like chocolates. I mentioned bubble baths. You also mentioned bubble baths of different versions of more of the surface level, I’d say, type of self-care. But I’d even say that self-care has this more negative side to it where we kind of get stuck in more of our soothing habits, like…

I know alcohol is one of them that comes to mind and even retail therapy would be something that I would say like, I know in college I would say it a lot of, I had a stressful day, I just need some retail therapy and like eating too much chocolates or too many sweets. It’s like, those are more of the, you’re actually giving into some not so great soothing habits and you’re using it as an excuse to take care of yourself. So how can we make sure that our self care routines are actually

Dr. Lauren Chase (05:02.51)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (05:29.612)
helping our mental health and not taking away from our overall goals at the same time.

Dr. Lauren Chase (05:35.298)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s being reflective and asking ourselves that question, like, why am I doing what I’m doing? Right? So why am I doing that? Everything is, you know, a lot of things, I don’t say everything, a lot of things are really great in moderation, right? You know, exercise, always great moderation. But if we’re obsessively doing it, we feel like we can’t relax and enjoy it. Well, then maybe we have a problem. Right. And so I think really focusing on am I doing this because I enjoy it? How does it make me feel before, during and after?

And do I feel this intense anxiety if I don’t do it? Right? If it’s causing us this worry, this obsessive thoughts, then this might be a problem. And how do we deal with that? But I think it’s really kind of that self reflective of how do I feel before? How do I feel during? And like, how do I feel after I do this?

Jess (06:23.028)
So glad you said that because I think a lot of times we get caught up with the how do I feel before and how do I feel during and shooting more for that instant gratification and something I really work on my clients with is the delayed gratification of things and the how do I feel after part and the way I phrase it is thinking with your future self in mind. So is the action you’re taking right now.

Dr. Lauren Chase (06:33.87)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (06:47.468)
going to make future you think the current you or feel guilty or upset about the current you and that goes into the what practice are you doing right now? And how is it going to make you feel later? So I’m glad that you mentioned like all three because it is it’s so easy to get caught up in the before and the right now like what how am I feeling right now I want to be feeling better. So I’m going to go eat some chocolate cake. I feel great eating that chocolate cake. no after the chocolate cake I now have a stomach ache.

Dr. Lauren Chase (07:15.63)
Yeah, absolutely. And how do we even afterwards if we do feel guilty like eating that chocolate cake? Okay, what can we do now? Because we can’t change it. I think a lot of times I see this in therapy a lot is there’s a lot of guilt about the past. There’s things we’ve done in the past, but we can’t change that. I think that’s the important thing to always think about is, unfortunately, we can’t go back. We don’t have a time machine and we can’t change that. But how do we process that guilt here and now in the moment? And what can we do differently for the future and learn from?

Jess (07:42.796)
Yeah, you’re right. And can you give an example of what you’ve done with your clients where, let’s say like they’re kind of in that cycle of they didn’t think so much with their future self and now they’re in that place of guilt. How do you walk them through moving out of it? Just write them like an immediate, let’s take action right now.

Dr. Lauren Chase (07:52.75)
Yeah.

Dr. Lauren Chase (08:06.156)
Yeah, absolutely. So I think it’s like, you know, I always say like, reevaluating that goals and focusing on the goals and like, what are your future goals in these different areas? And how do they align with what you’re currently doing? Right? Do they align with your goals? Are they misaligned? And if they’re misaligned, then let’s figure out some ways to fix that. But I think it’s like that alignment piece of, know, is there a congruence between what you’re doing now? And is that going to work toward your future self? Like, for example, right?

Let’s say, you know, one of your goals is to make more friends. I think that’s a big thing I see a lot with my clients. And the work that I do is like people are feeling really isolated right now. And so say, for example, you’re my client, you you’re working, you know, you want to make more friends. I think the big thing is, you know, if you’re working towards that goal, are you leaving the house? Right? Are you going out there in places where you can meet people? Or are you staying home all the time expecting the people to come to you, you know, in your house? When you if you are going out, are you?

approaching people for conversations, right? And just really kind of focusing on, you know, are the actions you’re doing aligning with these things and this person you want to be.

Jess (09:12.908)
Yeah, I did a friends workshop not too long ago and it’s because I see that it is a missing part of our 20s. No one really teaches you how to make friends. You’re growing up thrown into these same groups and part of that workshop is you actually have to go to places, places that you enjoy, places that you feel a little comfortable in because you already enjoy what’s happening that you then have to go up to someone to.

Dr. Lauren Chase (09:29.39)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lauren Chase (09:38.7)
Absolutely, there’s so many different parts. And I always say the hard part about making friends in your 20s too is like, it’s such a transitional time, right? It’s such a time where everyone’s transitioning, whether they’re going to graduate in college or going to grad school. I remember myself, was, gosh, I was like 23 years old when I moved here and didn’t know a soul, never been to Charlotte in my life. And it was like, how do you make friends in this transitional period?

of your life and it’s a scary thing but it’s so doable and such a valuable skill.

Jess (10:10.712)
Yeah, and that loneliness that you feel also impacts your mental health. So it’s take care of your mental health. So then you can go out and leave your apartment and go meet people. It’s all connected and it’s all a cycle. And you want that cycle to work in your favor. Now, we’ve been saying mental health a lot. And what I want you to do is to just define what it is for us. I know we hear about it’s important to prioritize your mental health. Companies are now offering mental health days, which is great.

Dr. Lauren Chase (10:34.99)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (10:40.64)
I know when I was in high school, my mom would let me my sister take mental health days when we needed to but what does that even mean? What is mental health? And can you highlight different ways it can impact someone’s life?

Dr. Lauren Chase (10:55.126)
Absolutely. So mental health is really, you know, it’s that emotional component. How am I feeling? There’s, you know, I’ll take this from a cognitive behavioral standpoint, and it really focuses on cognitive behavioral therapy focuses on your thoughts. What are the thoughts running through your mind? What is that narrative you have running through your mind every day? What are you saying about yourself? I’m happy. I’m worthy. I’m important. Or are you saying, I’m not important. I don’t matter. You know, those things like that. And then focusing on, you know, your feelings.

the emotions that you experience. And an thing I give to clients all the time is like, identify your feelings. Like we don’t really directly talk about our emotions often and identify our own feelings. And I’ll tell clients, I’ll be like, keep a journal of how you’re feeling every day and put a word to it. Words are so powerful. And I think we under like estimate the power of words of like putting that into words of that emotion that you’re feeling that day. Are you feeling sad? Are you feeling overwhelmed?

Are you feeling anxious? think anxiety is the big one where people don’t have that word for it, but they’re feeling that gut, their stomach, they’re feeling that, you know, headaches, they’re feeling that nervousness, but that anxiety, like, once you put that word on it, like, it’s powerful, you know, to break that down and say, there is something that incorporates this emotion that I’m experiencing. And I think following that is like the behavior, right? What are you actually doing? Right? And so what are the things that you’re doing? And does that align?

you know, with the emotions that you’re wanting to experience. You know, are you going out there and making friends? Are you doing hobbies? I think the biggest thing I see folks struggling with with their mental health, besides making, you know, relationships is, what am I interested in? What do I like to do? What am I passionate about? You know, I think about, you know, myself when I was in the 20 something range was figuring out, what do I want to do for the rest of my life? You know, what career is so important? And also hobbies, because your career can’t be your end all be all.

I think we have to have both those self-care, those hobbies and things we enjoy, as well as a fulfilling career.

Jess (12:58.392)
I I think your career can be fulfilling and it can be something you enjoy, but you do need that something else that is also going to bring you not the same level enjoyment maybe, but a different type of enjoyment, I would say.

Dr. Lauren Chase (13:13.494)
Absolutely, absolutely. And I always tell folks like, your career can be a means to an end. That’s also okay. You know, giving yourself permission, it does not have to completely fulfill you, it can, and that’s great if it does. But it also can be a means to an end and you find something else that finds fulfilling outside of that. You know, both can coexist. And even if you feel like you’re not there career wise, I always tell people I went straight bachelor’s master’s PhD, I got my PhD, I was like,

27, 28 years old and I never really worked a full-time job until then because I was always in school. And so I was always known, I was the student and I was known as a student. Now I’m here as a professional and that shift is really, really big on our mental health there. As a 20 something going into the career world and saying, hey, I’m not a student anymore or I’m not a trainee, I’m a worker, I’m this career. And so that shift is like super, super important.

acknowledging that it’s a huge change.

Jess (14:12.822)
Yeah, that’s part of why I became a coach is because no one helps you with these changes and it’s like it is overwhelming and I’m so glad that we have the same thought around your career does not have to be something that fills you it can be a means to your to an end because what I say is your career can like it should if your career is not your dying passion it’s not something you are absolutely loving to do it’s okay that it’s there to enhance the life your quality of life outside of your career.

as long as it’s not taking away from that. And for me, was like, I liked my career choice. I was an interior designer. I liked it, but it got to a point where it started to feel very soul sucking. And it was because I did find my passion and it just so happened my passion is something I could profit from. But that’s not for everyone. That doesn’t happen for everyone. So it was just getting curious and exploring.

what else does your life have to offer? What interests you have? Maybe even resorting back to some childhood interests. If I was a gymnast, it could be going to a trampoline park or even taking an adult gymnastics class and going down that path and seeing what comes from it. Not with the expectation of I’m going to make money from it, but just as an additional form of self care of bringing that enjoyment, that play back into your life and not just doing

all the adult responsibilities and feeling like your life is nothing besides work, sleep and clean and eat.

Dr. Lauren Chase (15:42.572)
Yeah, absolutely. And I always tell people when they’re kind of thinking about that, when are you the most happy in your world? When are you the most fulfilled? what, you know, what are you doing at those moments? You know, are you connecting with other people? Or do you prefer to be alone? like, asking yourself this question of like, when do I feel the most joy? And do I feel joy in my world? And what does that look like for me? And I think that’s always the question I ask folks is like, when do you feel the most happy? You know, and that can be a leading

to something, whether it’s a career or an interest or a hobby, but like, do more of that when you feel that joy and that excitement within boundaries, of course, but depending on what it is. you know, really reflecting on yourself and saying, okay, what, when do I feel the most like me and truly myself and who I am?

Jess (16:31.052)
Yeah, and I know for me, if I were to answer that is that when I come off of certain weekends, like, yes, I feel the most me when I’m coaching when I’m personal training, like I am unapologetically me out in the real world. Not everyone is receptive to who I am. And that’s okay. That’s part of life. Not my coach always says like, who are you for? The answer is not everyone. I’ve mentioned this on a past episode as well. But

The weekends that I come off of that I’m like, that was such an amazing, rich, fulfilling weekend is when I’m with my closest friends that some like, basically most of them I’ve known for less than a year now. And it’s because they do accept me for me. All the quirks and the very directness and the not so niceness parts of me, like they accept me for who I am and I can be relaxed and I can just be me.

Dr. Lauren Chase (17:26.944)
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s a term we use in counseling called radical acceptance of just accepting ourselves for who we are. There’s a really good book. I have it over here in my bookshelf. I’m looking for it. Here it is. Let me grab it and I can show it to you. It’s a really good book called Radical Acceptance. Now, it does kind of have those things about like Buddhism and things like that. And again, you don’t have to align with everything you feel like in the book.

But it’s Radical Acceptance by Tara Brock. It’s a really great book when it kind of highlights that how do we just fully and truly and radically accept who we are as people? Because that’s really once we do that, that’s the way we can, you know, heal and change and adapt and grow.

Jess (18:12.61)
love that. I’ll have to add it to my self help book club that I have. Dad, it’s the list because we’re always like, what’s our next book? So that just that might have to be it. But I want to talk about common threats to our mental health in our 20s, maybe some things that are not so obvious to a person who’s not well into their mental health or in the mental health industry in the self growth industry, reading all those books, like just someone that’s listening.

Dr. Lauren Chase (18:16.814)
and

Dr. Lauren Chase (18:26.028)
Yeah.

Jess (18:41.59)
and is like, yeah, no, my mental health is fine, but there’s these underlying, say triggers or threats that might be putting them on a not so great path and they’re not realizing it. So are there any that come to mind for a 20 something?

Dr. Lauren Chase (18:57.568)
Yeah, so I think there’s a lot of pieces. There’s, you your basics, you know, are you eating, sleeping, drinking enough water? Like, are you doing the basic things you need to do to exist as a human? Right? I think a lot of times in our 20s, you know, we’re, you know, are we in our party phase, and we’re going out and partying all night. And that’s great. If that’s what you want to do, that’s awesome. That’s okay. But are you still getting enough rest for yourself? And are you, you know, kind of doing your basic functions there? I think that’s a huge part of it is, are you doing the basics? I think

forgetting to have a drink. How many times do you go throughout your day and you’re like, I haven’t had a sip of water today. And it’s like, let’s drink some water. There was a saying like we’re complicated house plants or something like that. It made me think of that. I think that’s a big threat. think also the relationships we engage in as people, the people that we surround ourselves with can be benefits to our mental health and they also can be threats.

you know, and asking ourselves, we surrounding ourselves with people that build us up and help us work towards that goal? Are these people that break us down or distract us from where we want to be? So I think threats to our mental health, you know, could be, you know, relationships in our world. It could be the way that we take care of ourselves there. You know, and then also things that we talked about, you know, with jobs, like is our job draining us? Is it just not filling up our cup and doing what it means to do? I see the biggest thing people come into counseling for is like,

something’s just not working in their world. Some big event has happened and it’s just like, things aren’t working. And I think it’s asking ourselves, like, we don’t want to get to a point where we have this huge breakdown or huge event, but like reflecting on ourselves and saying, hey, is something right now not working? And what is that? And how do I need to change that?

Jess (20:44.984)
glad that you brought relationships into it is like a common thread because I wanted to talk about your boundaries and communication and I’ve talked about these things within other episodes, but not with the mental health specialist. So how can you dive a little deeper into relationships affecting your mental health and then any advice on setting healthy boundaries across different relationships?

Dr. Lauren Chase (21:10.304)
Yes, so, Shocker, I love books, so I have another book for that. So I’m gonna grab another book and I’m gonna show you. I’m looking here to find the book. I have a book for everything. The book is called, here it is. I’m gonna grab the book. There’s this book I always recommend to my clients, and it’s called Set Boundaries, Find Peace. And she’s actually local to Charlotte. How cool is that? Phenomenal book, highly recommend it.

It really focuses on how do we set boundaries in our world and what are our boundaries? Some of us don’t even really know what our boundaries are until somebody breaks them or someone pushes them, right? And so starting off and asking ourselves, what are my boundaries in my world? What are my boundaries in relationships, whether that’s romantic or friendship relationships? And a lot of times we don’t realize it until it’s broken. And so being proactive and saying, what are some things that just…

or hard notes for me? What are things I’m not okay with? And not, whether it’s treatment or, you know, it’s, you know, going out and drinking, it, know, whatever it may be, really asking ourselves, like, what are our boundaries? And if someone breaks it, what’s the consequence to that?

Jess (22:22.466)
Yeah, I’d say even time boundaries to add to that. So think boundaries more times than not are what you say of once they’ve been broken. That’s when we realize like, this is a boundary I have and I need to communicate it. What are some communication tactics? What are some healthy boundary setting practices people can take? how it’s easier to just be like, yeah, set your boundaries. And I know it’s gonna vary per the individual, but if anything comes to mind,

Dr. Lauren Chase (22:25.336)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (22:51.882)
I would love for my audience to hear what you have to say.

Dr. Lauren Chase (22:55.896)
Yeah, so your responsibility as a person is to communicate your boundaries, right? To clearly communicate what you need from that other person. It’s that other person’s responsibility to listen and to do that action. And I think it’s separating those two. It’s like the first step is like, I can’t control. I think the biggest thing I see is like people trying to control something that they can’t control, whether it’s their partner and doing a certain behavior or it’s something that their boss is doing at work. If ask yourself,

is this within my circle of control. There’s an activity I like to do in therapy, which is the circle of control. Everything inside the circle you can control, everything outside you can’t. And I ask my clients as I have them do it. And then I ask them this question, what outside of the circle are you trying to control? And I think that really kind of brings some revelations of like, okay, are you trying to control things you don’t either? Can you get control in some way or

Is this something you’re going to have to let go? And that’s kind of maybe where this radical acceptance comes in or, you know, really kind of figuring out what does that mean for me if I’m trying to control something that I can’t.

Jess (24:04.236)
Yeah, control is one of the pillars in my own your life signature system. And when I introduce these pillars to a potential client, I explain is that we learn what we have control over and you control yourself, your actions and your reactions. And that’s pretty much it. So it’s knowing it’s being able to release the things that you can’t, and it’ll come up at in each session of.

I’m really frustrated. This person’s doing this and is like, okay, like, how do you want to handle this situation? And then what can we do about it? Because and knowing that and releasing the rest, that’s the biggest part is being able to say I did everything I could with the knowledge I have in this moment. And whatever happened after that happened after that, and only I can control how I want to continue to move forward based off of what happens.

Dr. Lauren Chase (24:57.686)
Absolutely, definitely. And I emphasize that a lot with my clients and like in the work I do of like, you can only control that part of how you react to somebody else, right? you trying to control someone else saying you got to do this, you know, that’s going to be kind of a fruitless effort there. Now, of course, we need to set, you know, set standards and set, you know, again, boundaries and like, hey, I need this. But trying to control someone else is oftentimes where that anxiety

that depression, that frustration, like stuckness comes in is like, can I actually change that?

Jess (25:31.862)
Yeah, it even comes up in business. If I’m feeling frustrated in a given month, if I’m like, there’s not a lot of clients that I’m working with right now. And it’s like, okay, what action do I need to take to, in a sense, prove myself wrong or change this path of like, I don’t like what I’m experiencing. How can I change it? What can I do about it? And if you were to break down every single part of your life and just ask yourself those things, you’ll start to find a lot more peace within.

Dr. Lauren Chase (25:40.206)
you

Jess (26:00.82)
your own life circumstances and experiences because you’ve come to terms with the things that you can’t control and took action on what you could.

Dr. Lauren Chase (26:09.058)
Yeah, absolutely. And especially being a 20 something, know, there’s so many things happening in the world that you might not be able to control at certain moments, whether it’s world issues, whether it’s, know, whatever is going on in your world, maybe it’s finances are hard, all these different things feel like out of your control, but to asking yourself, okay, how can I rein this in? How can I find control? What is one thing, one step I can take that’s going to make me feel in control? You know, maybe you’re hating your job and it’s just like feeling like enough. What is one little thing you can do?

Is it putting in one job application? Is it doing research and saying, okay, you know, maybe I’m interested in going back to school and what options are out there. Maybe it’s, know, looking, you know, having a conversation with your boss and, know, trying to set some boundaries. What is the one thing you can do? Because there’s always, and there’s always something you can do, whether it’s an action or just changing your mindset or your outlook, there’s always something you can do in a situation.

Jess (27:05.046)
I agree. Now I want to ask a hypothetical. Let’s say you have a relationship with someone like a friendship. We’ll start with friendships. Have this friendship that you guys you developed with someone else and at first it was great. It was what became one of your best friends. They were supportive. They were there for you. They were there in times of needs and times of happiness like all of it. And then it slowly started to switch into a relationship that is more

Dr. Lauren Chase (27:19.416)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (27:33.17)
draining that’s more unsupportive that is more kind of celebrating when you’re losing rather than celebrating with you when you’re winning and being there for you when you’re losing. How can someone start to navigate those waters of either releasing that person or talking to that person without feeling guilty?

Dr. Lauren Chase (27:35.95)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lauren Chase (27:42.958)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lauren Chase (27:54.688)
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think the hardest part is that guilt there because I think we often, I think we’re often taught like I think back to elementary school that like we have to be friends with everybody and we have to, you know, always be accepting and I think we do with boundaries. So and if we feel like someone’s draining us or taking that energy from us or treating us poorly, we have every right to set that boundary and to say, Hey, I’m not going to be talked to like that or Hey, you’re not going to treat me like that or Hey, I feel disrespected when you do this.

this is what I need. And you know, if we communicate to that to them, they keep disrupting that boundary and keep pushing that we have every right to say, Hey, this is not serving me right now. This is not working for me. I need to step away from this relationship right now. And I think that’s a hard thing for a lot of people to do. And whether it’s family or friends or a partner or whatever, but I think it’s really important for us. If you think about your life, you think about yourself and as a 20 something

Do you think about those friends that you had in elementary school, middle school, high school? Do you still have those friends? Great if you do, right? That’s awesome. But that’s also okay if maybe you outgrew each other or you moved apart. We have different people in our world for different parts of our lives and that’s okay. How do you give yourself permission to grow and to shift and change and not say stagnant?

Jess (29:16.992)
Yeah, reason, season, or lifetime. I know I have a friend from middle school and she’s like moved across the country, she’s moved back and we just grow it once kind of once we went off to college, we went to different schools and from that point on, we started to grow in different directions and really coming to terms with

Dr. Lauren Chase (29:18.121)
Sure. Yeah.

Jess (29:40.106)
It’s okay to not have a falling out with someone to no longer really be engaging with them or making the effort. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s more of a on a rainy day, like in a time of need, always going to be there for each other, but we’re not actively in each other’s lives. And I’m not actively trying to make plans and coordinate and see her. It’s more of a, Hey, like we just, we don’t

have a lot in common anymore and that’s okay. And I part of that comes with sticking to your own boundaries. it’s a lot of times boundaries don’t need to be communicated. It’s just knowing, hey, I’m not gonna make the effort towards this person because I don’t want to nurture this relationship anymore as it’s no longer serving me.

Dr. Lauren Chase (30:28.192)
Absolutely, absolutely. I think that’s, know, asking yourself, is this worth my energy and effort? Is this somewhere where I want to put myself, you know, and say, and like you said, there doesn’t always have to be this huge falling out. This is not the biggest huge thing. But, you know, and I think asking yourself, is this something if this relationship is really important to you, and you want to communicate that, do that. But be authentic to yourself.

Jess (30:50.737)
Yeah, for on the topic of boundaries, I this comes more for my people pleasers listening. How can you help someone stay true to their boundaries, like essentially set a boundary with themselves to stick to their own boundaries when they feel they need to please the people around them and this whole boundary setting is new for them.

Dr. Lauren Chase (31:14.186)
Absolutely. Starting small is the biggest thing. Like any goal you work on, you know, starting really tiny, what’s a tiny, low stakes boundary you can set for yourself. And I think once you start seeing it be successful and you getting what you want, you’re going to set larger boundaries. You’re going to move to bigger, you know, more higher stakes things. But once you’re successful in a small thing, like, hey, I can’t attend that meeting or hey, I’ve been doing meditions every night. I can’t do them tonight, you know, to bigger level things.

once you’re successful, you’re more likely to do, you know, to move up in the realm of boundaries. So I think it’s starting small is the biggest thing of like little tiny things of like, hey, this time isn’t going to work for me. Here’s what I can do. You know, I can’t do this, but here’s what I can and offering that alternative. And once you see that it’s well received or not, you can’t really control that, right? How they choose to receive it, you can’t control but if it’s, you know, received well and it worked and you know,

you got the result you wanted, you’ll be more likely to set those bigger boundaries.

Jess (32:16.92)
I’m glad you said that because I tell people to offer an alternative if if they care to nurture that relationship at hand that they’re setting that boundary with and to know that the people who are going to fight back on the boundaries you’re setting are the people who are already overstepping and that’s part of this learning experience. You can’t expect someone to completely adhere to your boundaries on the first time if this is new for them as well, but

Dr. Lauren Chase (32:22.574)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lauren Chase (32:33.326)
you

Jess (32:43.88)
you continuing to enforce them and remind them in a polite way and in a nice, friendly, nurturing way is what’s going to help it over time become a very respectful place. And mean, you might get lucky and people respect your boundaries first time around, but we’re human and we forget and we fall into our old habits. So just know that it does take a little bit of time to get to that point, but it is well worth it.

Dr. Lauren Chase (33:09.088)
Absolutely, definitely.

Jess (33:11.864)
All right, you had mentioned when you were defining mental health, part of mental health is the way you talk to yourself. I know that our mind is an extremely powerful tool, and it can either work with us or against us. Unfortunately, most of the time, we’re probably not the nicest to ourselves. I know I’m guilty of negative self talk too. No one’s really immune to it. And there’s even a book that

So third book of this episode, I believe I’ve recommended here before and it’s called The Untethered Soul. And one of the chapters talks about our brain is our roommate and that we can’t get away from it ever. So it’s knowing how to manage the word your roommate says to you as you’re always going to be attached to each other. What are some steps someone can begin taking to manage the roommate that lives in their mind?

Dr. Lauren Chase (34:06.636)
Yeah, absolutely. you know, positive affirmations is always a great start. There is a podcast that you still know a long time ago, and I have it in a while now that I’m bringing it up, it reminds me affirmation babe. And I don’t know if she still comes out with like different podcasts, but she had these great like women focused affirmations to ourselves and I would listen to them. And there were so many different things about relationships, children, whatever it may be job at work, and I like listen to them and I love that. you know,

Having affirmations for yourself and an affirmation is simple statement, I am blank or I will be blank and really speaking into existence your goals there and who you want to be. So for example, I’ll sometimes say, I’m a great educator. I bring a lot to my students. That’s a good positive affirmation for myself. I have something to give to these people.

There’s an affirmation I like to do and I hope you don’t mind me a little cussing here, but I’m a damn good counselor. I am a damn good therapist and I have something to give to my client. And I have this experience and these skills and this who I am give something to them. And so sometimes those are affirmations I’ll use for myself and even something that y’all can use for yourself of figuring out like.

What am I good at? What’s my strength? I’m really speaking that into existence. And even if it’s not there, you know, when I started teaching counseling a few years back, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. I was just winging it. always, I’m just winging it. But you know what? I told myself, I know what I’m doing. I have the experience and the education and the ability to be there for these students and to support them and give them what they need. And if I sure as hell don’t know, it’s okay, I’ll ask somebody and we’ll figure it out together. But

Speaking these affirmations to ourselves I think really helps kind of trick our mind into telling ourselves we’re there. You know, that fake it till you make it stuff. Like it’s that. You know, it’s telling ourselves, know, I am good enough or I can do this. And it sounds cheesy and it sounds whatever, but it’s, you know, it really mindset is so powerful.

Jess (36:19.19)
Yeah, I have my own affirmation practices every single morning. I write it all next to my to do list for that day. I’ll just however long that to do list is however many affirmations I’m going to write. And mine will be something like I am successful or I am saving money every month. I am filled with healthy and loving relationships. They just things that I want some of which I have created for myself, but I still write it down as that affirmation. And I think it’s

part of those, the affirming is also coming from catching yourself when you’re kind of crapping on yourself in that moment and changing that narrative in real time of if you’re like, I’m so stupid is like, no, okay, I’m not actually stupid. Like I am smart. I’m learning how to figure this out right now. And just be a little nicer to yourself. We are, we’re so, so hard on ourselves all the time.

Dr. Lauren Chase (36:56.632)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Lauren Chase (37:16.718)
Absolutely, we are so hard on ourselves. My partner is always really great at catching me. When I do that, he’s always like, Lauren, why are you saying that? Would you say that to a client? What if a client said that to you? He always says that. And I’m like, you’re right. I don’t have to be perfect. And no one has to be perfect. We call it in cognitive behavioral therapy, shoulding on ourselves. We should, I should do this. Yeah, I should do that. I should do that. But you know what? What can I do now differently?

Jess (37:36.438)
Yup, I made an episode on that.

Jess (37:44.362)
Yes. Yep. I love it. Like the shitting all over yourself, I think was the title of the episode because it is true. We do we should all over ourselves and it’s not cute when we do that. So got to learn how to not do that anymore. But with mental health, I think part of what encourages people to want to improve their mental health, although I have yet to meet someone who does not want to improve their mental health, is knowing everything that

Dr. Lauren Chase (37:48.076)
Hmm.

Dr. Lauren Chase (37:55.278)
No.

Jess (38:12.888)
could become possible for them or any positive outcome that could happen as a result. So what are all the positive things someone can look forward to because they’re deciding to actively put their mental health first?

Dr. Lauren Chase (38:28.16)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the big key is whatever your goals are. It’s going to be easier to attain them if you’re focusing on your mental health, whatever they may be, financial, spiritual. Are you wanting to buy a house? Are you wanting to get that job interview? Whatever that may be, that’s going to be easier. So attaining your goals, I think it’s going to be a big thing there. Can you ask the question again?

Jess (38:54.442)
Yeah, just.

Dr. Lauren Chase (38:54.54)
I started off on that and I lost. I lost the question and what I said there.

Jess (38:59.224)
It’s what are all the positive outcomes that someone can look forward to?

Dr. Lauren Chase (39:01.838)
positive outcomes. Yeah, positive outcomes, know, a, you know, strong relationship with others, right, strengthening your relationship skills. Sometimes we call them soft skills. So positive outcomes of mental health, right? You know, stronger relationships with others, whether that’s romantic or friendship, you know, learning how to take care of yourself better, because we’re going to have tough days that are really hard. And how do I support myself going through those tough times?

Right? Because we’re always going to go through them. Unfortunately, it’s not all going to be sunshine and rainbows. And I always tell my clients that. But in those dark times, there’s a really great video by Brene Brown on empathy. Do a Google search and look Brene Brown and empathy. And it’s one of my favorite videos. I show this to clients. I show this to my students, counseling students all the time. And there’s this image in there of I can’t remember what animal the character was, but there’s a character down in a hole.

And they’re asking for help to get out of the hole. And there’s the person up there, the other animal, and they’re like, that sucks, right? And that’s not empathy, right? That’s kind of like sympathy or just kind of being ignoring, but that empathy is like, hey, that sucks, that’s hard. Let me get down here in that hole with you and help you get back out, right? And figuring out how do I be okay? Because we’re all going to be in those holes. We’re all in those holes. We all get there. We go through these time periods. We’re in that hole.

But how can we meet someone where they are and say, hey, you’re having a tough time. That’s OK. I have tough times too. How do we get out of that?

Jess (40:36.076)
Yeah. And mental health does that for you. I like that it’s more of a preventative measure of yes, those crappy times are going to happen. That is a given. We can’t prevent that out of our control. Big theme of today, but it’s going to make it a lot easier to get through it. And I say like, it keeps your head on straight. The way I coach my clients is creating a solid foundation in their mental, emotional, financial, physical state.

and then going so that they can take risks and try new things without losing their marbles in the process. And that’s like the coaching way of putting your mental health first, but the therapy way, the counseling way is so that you can make it through these hard times and see it through to the other side.

Dr. Lauren Chase (41:24.206)
Absolutely. And I don’t think a big thing in counseling is I always tell people like, we’re not aware of everything. We’re not fully self aware, we’re not fully there. And so counseling can also really help folks kind of see these things that aren’t in their awareness, right? I don’t have any stake in the game. I don’t have any skin in the game. I’m not your partner. I’m not your friend. You know, I’m not your cheerleader, right? I’m an unbiased third party that you come to see and I give you that support and give you that feedback of like,

here’s what I’m experiencing, here’s what I see in what you’re telling me. So I think also a really great benefit to like working on your mental health is like getting that feedback, that support that like your friends might not give you, right? Cause your friends have a stake in the game. They want you to succeed. You know, they’re going to be like, you know, hell yeah, go you, you know, all that stuff, which is great. I call that cheerleading. But sometimes we need that unbiased point of view and you know,

pointing out of like, hey, this might not be working or hey, what’s that like for you when you’re experiencing that? Really, really unauthentically like, here’s what I see.

Jess (42:30.36)
Yeah, my best friend and I will do that to each other. We’ll like, we’ll be like, hey, not your friend for a second. We’re gonna we’ll we’ll coach each other because she’s also a coach. We’ll coach each other around this. Are you sure you’re not self sabotaging in this way? Because this is what I see. Is this true for you? And it’s like we actually talk it through and put friendships aside. And we’ll even talk to each other is like, are you coming to me for advice for coaching for support? You just need a vent and like

establishing that right away so that we know that we’re able to give each other what we’re looking for, but then also call each other out when it’s needed.

Dr. Lauren Chase (43:08.49)
Absolutely. And I think a big misconception in mental health is like you come to a therapist to get advice and everyone comes in like, are you going to tell me what to do? And I always tell folks this. I’m like, if I knew how to fix all these problems, I wouldn’t be doing this. I’d be a millionaire on a yacht on an island somewhere. You know, we are normal people. You know, we support you in figuring out how to solve your own problems. So the next time you come across that issue, you’re like, hell yeah, I know what to do when that person

you know, pushes my boundary rather than, yeah, you know, Lauren told me to do this, so I’m going to do this every single time.

Jess (43:47.724)
Yeah, exactly. And that’s what we do in coaching as well. know, therapy is more of a, Hey, this is happening from your past. Like how do we get out of it? And coaching is the, this is happening right now, taking into account your past, but not diving in. And it’s like, if this comes up again, how do we get ourselves out of this situation? But speaking of support and finding these different types of resources for your mental health. So finding different counselors or therapists that are a fit for you.

Dr. Lauren Chase (43:56.334)
Mm.

Jess (44:17.176)
what are some resources you recommend? What are some maybe some questions you could ask a therapist or a counselor that you’re interviewing to see if you want to work with them to know if you’re a good fit? Like how does someone go about finding this support that is best for them?

Dr. Lauren Chase (44:33.582)
Absolutely. So it’s very, you know, it’s, it’s, I hate to hear it’s so hard to find a therapist. And the biggest thing I hear is like, I don’t get a response. And I’m just like, that just like breaks my heart because I’m like, it’s so hard to reach out for help and say, Hey, I’m having trouble. That’s like the hardest thing. And I always tell people that like, just being vulnerable and saying, I’m having a tough time right now. Like that’s difficult enough.

So being bold enough, one, pat yourself on the back for that, for saying, I need help. And then two, it’s as simple as a Google search therapist near me. If you’re looking for help with a certain issue, anxiety therapists for women, self-esteem therapists for women near me, things to keep in mind with mental health therapy. Your therapist has to be licensed in your state. So if you’re in North Carolina, you got to look for a North Carolina therapist, most likely. Things like that if you’re in South Carolina, South Carolina there.

But even just doing a Google search, there’s great sites like Psychology Today, Mental Health Match. There’s other things like that. And even among us therapists, there’s therapy Facebook groups that we can offer referrals and find you resources. So anytime a client reaches out for me and I can’t support them, I have an awesome network of people that I know that, I don’t do this, but I have a friend who does couples counseling. I don’t see couples, so I always refer them to her.

So always know, you know, if that person’s not a fit for you, they often can help you find people that do support what you’re needing help with. So whether it’s Google or, you know, reaching out to somebody that you know that happens to be a therapist can always just be a really great start. Psychology Today, Mental Health Match, some other ways. Your insurance is always, if you have health insurance, you know, that’s a great first start. Having that coverage is important to you. Let’s say a brew cough through a shield.

call them up and say, hey, what are the local therapists that accept my insurance? Things like that can be a really great start to getting that support and kind of filling that gap.

Jess (46:36.824)
All right, thank you. Do you have any final piece of advice for the 20 somethings listening who want to strengthen their relationship to themselves and to their mental health?

Dr. Lauren Chase (46:47.254)
Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s prioritizing yourself, like asking yourself like where areas of my self care am I lacking? And how can I fill these gaps? And then also asking yourself, are my relationships filling me up? Or are they draining me? Or am I feeling empty? And what do I need right now? What do I need support in? And how can I get there? There’s always things that we can do in action that we can take to work towards those goals. And ask yourself, am I aligning with that person that I want to be whether I’m

20 something now or 30 something later, am I aligning with that person that I want to be?

Jess (47:22.392)
Well, thank you, Dr. Lawrence, so much for being a guest on How to 20-something. If people want to get in touch with you or ask you questions, even inquire about working with you, where can they find you?

Dr. Lauren Chase (47:34.06)
Absolutely. So I am accepting new clients, I see clients virtually and you’ll reach out through my website. So it’s climbinghillscounseling.com. I also have an Instagram, I have a Facebook page, but I prefer kind of inquiry coming through the website. On there you can read a little bit about me, kind of my approach and my personality and kind of who I support. So that can always be the best place to reach me and if I’m not able to support you, I’m happy to direct you to someone who will and find that support for you.

Jess (48:03.432)
And all of that will be linked in the show notes for you guys to access per usual. Otherwise, thank you for listening to another episode of how to 20 something. If you liked what you heard, please share this episode, send it to a friend, post on social media, tag us when you do. And as always, I can’t wait to be in your headphones again next week with another brand new episode.