Jess Diamond (00:01.175)
Okay, and then I’m gonna start recording here. I record on two different things. So welcome back to another episode of How to 20 something where today I’ve brought on a guest to talk about friendships. I’ve done a lot of episodes with guests and by myself on this topic. But today’s episode is different because we’ll be talking about the seemingly negative side of friendships or when the friendship life with someone has reached its end, what to do to break things off and

how to trust your gut when going to make new friends. We all know the saying that people come into our lives for a reason, a season, or a lifetime, and that saying holds so true to friendships, especially as you move through your 20s. You’re going to have friends based on proximity, days of life, common enemies, schedules, hobbies, and so on and so forth. And not every friendship is going to stay strong, relevant, or healthy.

So Sierra is going to break down what to do when you’ve outgrown a friendship, toxic or not, and be okay with releasing people from your life. But before we dive in, I’m going to introduce her and why you guys should definitely tune in for the rest of this episode. Sierra Rubin is a bestselling author, singer, and mystic with a mission to help women heal their hearts and attract the soul-aligned friendships they’ve been yearning for.

Her newest book, In Her Circle, is a powerful guide to overcoming toxic patterns, rewriting your friendship story, and calling in the authentic connections you deserve. Through her signature blend of intuition, authenticity, practical tools, and a dash of sass, Ciara’s work inspires women to stand in their truth, trust their intuition, and create relationships that feel like pure magic. Ciara first captured the hearts of readers with her debut book, You Always Know.

an Amazon bestseller that inspired empaths to stop second guessing themselves and step into their confidence. Now she’s continuing her mission, encouraging women to grow side by side and discover the extraordinary strength found in genuine connection. When she’s not writing or leading her audience on journeys of self discovery, Sierra is a homeschool mom to her two boys and loves spending time with her husband. She’s also a singer in her local rock band.

Jess Diamond (02:16.225)
A connoisseur of a smoothie bowls and marvels at anything adorably tiny, seriously miniature versions of everything. Through her life and work, reminds us all that creating deep and soulful bonds is not just possible, it’s part of who we’re meant to be. Hi, Sierra, and welcome to How to 20 something.

Ciara Rubin (02:34.068)
Hi, I’m so excited to be here.

Jess Diamond (02:36.963)
I’m excited to have you here. I’m glad we were able to connect through Stacey, my coach, and make this episode happen. So I want to start with a little background about you. Why are you so passionate about helping females build solid friendships and release ones that aren’t working anymore?

Ciara Rubin (02:55.342)
passionate about it because about helping females build solid friendships because I know what it takes. So the book that you mentioned in her circle is a personal development vibe self help, but it is a teaching memoir. So a huge chunk of it is personal stories. So I am spilling all the tea on so many different friendships that either went really well. A lot of them didn’t go really well.

and how I navigated that, I learned from that. I know the mistakes, I know the heartbreaks, and I know what it’s like also to have real true friends. I have two best friends that I have known for a decade each. So I feel like that makes me qualified and also it just makes me really passionate because I want that for everyone else. I feel like as women, we all kind of want that.

Jess Diamond (03:49.005)
Yeah, well, even as humans, regardless if you’re a woman or a man, like you’re you need connection to thrive in this world. so my question for you is that is this just female to female friendships or is it female male friendships? It could be male male friendships. Like, is this open to anyone or who does it benefit the best? It’s my question.

Ciara Rubin (04:08.159)
it’s specifically for female to female friendship. It’s specifically for that. And partially because number one, that’s only what I have my experience in. But every time I talk to my husband who I’ve been with for almost 15 years about my friendships, he’s just like, Whoa, Sierra, that is so weird. Like none of that happens in my guy friendships. Like it’s so much more chill.

With female friendships, woman to woman are extremely emotional. It’s just like dating, honestly. It’s very similar to dating. And so it just has a special flavor that I decided to help people with because I had to help myself with it.

Jess Diamond (04:53.197)
Yeah, my audience has heard my stories throughout this is my podcast, but I had a male best friend of eight years and we went through a rough friendship breakup. And from that point on, I focused on having female friendships. And now that’s, that is my circles. have primarily female friendships. I have a boyfriend and I’m friendly with a lot of males, but my go-to people are my girls. And one of my best friend in Charlotte with me, her name’s Brie.

whenever we’re having complex problems in our lives, or like we’re not happy with one another, because that happens, it goes in waves, we’ll start our conversations, like this is not friendship ending, this is just what’s bothering me, like I’m upset about this, but like we’re gonna get through this together. it’s, I found myself doing that with my boyfriend when I was having my own spiral moment, and I told him, I was like, this isn’t relationship ending, like.

this is a me thing, I’m going through something and he responded, he was like, I know it’s not relationship ending. I was like, listen, this is what I do with Bri, because it just calms our brains and I didn’t want you to spiral because I was spiraling and I was having my moment. it is, female to female relationships are definitely more emotional and more complex than male to male and even female to male.

Ciara Rubin (06:11.724)
Yeah, for sure. And I love that. I love that you gave that little disclaimer. I think it sounds cute. But like, it’s actually really good for the nervous system. Like, this is not friendship ending. I just want to bring this up. That’s actually so healthy and so mature. So I love that you do that and have that

Jess Diamond (06:30.015)
thanks. Good advice. Right. Everyone write that down. But I want to shift into something that my coach likes to say, and that she says it in terms of business, but it’s, I think it also relates to friendships. relates to any relationships you build. And the question that she always asks is who are you for? So she asked for it in terms of your niche and how you’re building a business. And the answer is not everyone. Knowing in relation to friendships, you’re not

Ciara Rubin (06:33.186)
Yeah!

Jess Diamond (06:57.859)
going to be besties with every single person you come in contact with, what are some techniques people can begin to implement when they need to formulate or not need to, when they’re going to formulate this relationship and want to know if someone is meant to stay in their life or not? And is there a way to know ahead of time?

Ciara Rubin (07:18.734)
I feel like there is, but not ahead of time. There is a way to know, but there’s not really a way to know ahead of time. The best thing that you can do ahead of time to make the right friends and not just more friends, right, as you’re saying, is to start with an ideal friend list. I did this back in 2020 when we were all stuck in our homes. I was thinking about, you know, who would I really want this ideal person to be? I only had…

really one good girlfriend at the time, I was in a completely different place. And I wanted to figure that out. I want to manifest that ideal friend. So I made a list of I think there’s like 10 or 12 traits of an ideal best friend. And so that is step one is to like make that list. Like if there was no restrictions, if anything was possible, what would she be like? Would she be a deep thinker? Would she be spiritual? What would she be into?

What would she be passionate about? Would she be a goal getter, right? Like these ideal qualities. And then the next step is to check yourself, right? Because we can only attract, we can only manifest what we are a vibrational match to. And so take a look at that list and like, are you the listener embodying those traits that you want in an ideal friend? Now it doesn’t have to be a hundred percent, right? We’re all a work in progress, but like,

75, 80 % of those things, are you embodying those traits? Are you a vibrational match to that friend? That is going to ensure that you’re going to attract somebody that could be in your life for a lifetime. And doing that inner work to get to that place where you’re a vibrational match to that ideal best friend is really, really good.

So I think that’s where I would start. And then if you want me to keep going, I can share my red, yellow, green light framework that I have for knowing whether or not somebody is really meant to stay in your life.

Jess Diamond (09:23.075)
Yes, yes, I want to hear the framework.

Ciara Rubin (09:25.314)
Yeah. So think of it like a traffic light, right? Green means go. Yellow means slow down a little bit. And red means stop, girl. So if a green light’s behaviors would be things like, she asks you about yourself, right? There’s a lot of people out, everybody loves to talk about themselves and there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s human nature. That’s totally natural.

But if somebody is asking you, if a friend is asking you questions about yourself, that means that she’s interested in you, interested in your life, curious about who you are and the way you think. You know, I’ve been in many friendships in the past where I would be the one asking all of the questions. And then because I am so open and easy, it’s easy for me to be vulnerable. I would then just tell her about myself without waiting to see if she was going to ask questions, right?

She’s just not that into you if she’s not asking you questions about yourself. So that’s a green light behavior if she is doing that. Also, there’s five of them, but I’m only gonna give you two of each. one other green light behavior would be she not only is able to support you while you’re struggling, but she’s also able to celebrate your wins.

Right? So you want somebody that’s going to be there for you and you want to notice in the ways that she shows up for you in her own love language when you’re struggling when you’re feeling challenged, depressiony, like whatever it is. But also how does she react when you have a success? Is she able to celebrate you? Because there’s many people out there that are, you know, they want to save you and they want to help you and my gosh, they just love to be that

person that’s so there for you. But when you have a big success, are there crickets? Is it just sort of like status quo? Is she feeling threatened by your shining light? Right? So taking notice of that. Okay. So those are green lights. She’s able to do those things. Yeah.

Jess Diamond (11:31.747)
Wait, yeah, I wanna add to that before you go into the yellow. So the green lights, the first one’s like, she asking questions? And I wanna even backtrack a little bit more to when you, to make a list and manifest, because like us girls, like we do that about guys that we wanna date. Like we make our lists of like, I want these qualities, like I wanna show up in the same way that I want my future partner to show up and.

I want to make sure he’s asking me questions and it’s not just a one sided conversation. So it’s so interesting. It’s like, yes, this applies to making friends as well. Like it does feed into that. And then the other part is having someone that celebrates your wins and be there for you when you’re down bad. I, I definitely have those friends that do that for me now. But when I was in that in between like post friendship breakup, navigating, like who do I want my friends to be like, who is even

for me, who do I like? Who do I want to be around? And I was realizing that a girl that was in my life for about a year at that point, was one of those people that was there for me when I was down bad when my life was essentially worse than hers, or she had a leg up over me over something, she was there. And the second I started to either match her or go better, she would try to bring me back down. And the example being, I spent

the whole summer of 2023, just depressed. was this is when I was, I didn’t have friends, I didn’t, I was alone. And it was a really, really hard time for myself. And she was there. And we would see each other, we would hang out, but I would start to realize like, this isn’t such a positive influence in my life. And it wasn’t until the end of that summer, when I started to make friends, I started a book club, I started to go do things again. And I was when I realized that I was depressed for

several months beforehand because I felt happy again and I told her and I was like, my god, I was depressed because I feel happy. And she instead of being celebratory, like this is so great, like I didn’t even realize I had high functioning depression, which I’m sure a lot of people can relate to, like even I didn’t know I was disguising it for myself. But she her response to that instead of cheering with me was you need to go to therapy.

Jess Diamond (13:53.807)
Like you need help. And I was like, that’s, I, was, she knows I’m in therapy now and I’ve healed that relationship I have with Ther-y, but she knew my relationship to therapy was not great. So for her to say that, I was like, please stop saying that. Like I, I, this is triggering me. This is making me upset when you’re telling me need to go to therapy. I’m in a good place right now. Can you be happy with me? And basically that was kind of the, one of the last times we had an exchange. Like we stopped being friends after that when I

her to not tell me to go to therapy because I was feeling happy again. So yeah, it’s just wild.

Ciara Rubin (14:25.846)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I hear you. It’s it’s a rude awakening. It’s really weird because you always you think like, stereotypically, friends are supposed to be there for each other when you’re struggling, you know, like, that’s sort of the messaging that we hear. But what about when you’re not? What about being happy for you and not having jealousy or not having, you know, feeling threatened by your

happiness and by your success and by moving forward. It’s interesting because it brings up this concept that I learned from a teacher of mine, Gabby Bernstein. I don’t know if you’ve heard of her in the personal development world, but she talks about manifestation driftwood. So basically, if something is going really well for someone else in your circle or in outer circles, like the closer it gets to you is the closer it’s coming for you.

And so instead of seeing it like this is a threat or I’m scared, what’s gonna happen if she makes friends with other people besides me and then decides maybe that she likes them more, right? Seeing that instead that the successes that she’s having are an indication that you’re gonna be having successes that you wanna have in the near future if you can be happy for her, if you can be happy with her.

So I think that’s a really powerful story that you tell. And I tell a similar story in the book about, I changed all the names of the women, of course, a woman that I call Piper, where yes, she was really there for me when I was going through a miscarriage. And it was really intense. And she showed up. And she brought soup and all the things. And I so appreciated that. And then when I launched my first book, she said she was going to come, didn’t come, and ghosted me.

So it was like a very clear example of that, you know, not really being able to be happy for someone else.

Jess Diamond (16:25.027)
Yeah, it’s stuff. But okay, I want to hear more. So what are the yellow light moments?

Ciara Rubin (16:30.156)
Okay, yeah, so yellow light behaviors are not like, like you said, not friendship ending, but just take a pause. Just kind of take some time and get interested in your own stuff and your own life for a while. If she, for example, sends sort of or says something that sounds a little passive aggressive, maybe it’s a backwards compliment, like she’s complimenting you, but you can feel sort of that.

venom energy, sort of that bite almost behind what she’s saying, or she says something to you, like you share something with her and then her response just kind of doesn’t feel nice. Like I don’t want to say that like you always need to be perfect and positive. Like friends are there to point out the real stuff and the things that you need to look at as well. But if she’s making sort of passive aggressive comments,

Let’s say if you do something that is personal goal related, like you’re reaching a goal and you’re doing something that’s not as popular, like maybe you’re watching less TV or less trash TV or maybe you’re eating a little healthier and she kind of like makes a passive aggressive comment or pokes fun at, yeah, that’s right. You don’t go on your phone after 8 p.m. I forgot, you know, like kind of thing. Take pause, take note.

And the thing that’s really cool about this framework, I have it in like a free PDF you can download. There’s also action steps that go along with it. So if she does that and makes a comment like that, be brave and ask her directly, like, how do you feel about the fact that I’m eating healthier? How are you feeling about the fact that I’m not watching TV and that I’m not on my phone after 8 p.m. scrolling? And just kind of see what comes up and see how she responds. So those are sort of like yellow lights. Did you want to add anything before we go into the red?

Jess Diamond (18:27.663)
where that I am a passive aggressive person. And it’s something that I really try to work on. And I only realized it over the last couple months. And now it’s more I need, it’s with my sisters, with my best friend. And I’m like, I need them to call me out on it. And it’s not in the way of goal setting in that sense of like achievement wise, but it’ll be more so if something’s bothering me.

but I don’t see it as a big enough reason to have a conversation about it, then I think I can hide it and it comes out as passive aggression. So it’ll be more of a backhanded thing where I start to question like, am I, I’m not a good friend. I have my moments where I am not a good friend and I know that and it’s something I really, I feel insecure about and I wanna work on, but I.

I feel like if you’re listening, like you probably have your yellow flag and once we get to the red flag, like your red light, yellow light moments, and it’s things that you get to work on. And I know that being passive aggressive is something I really need to work on because it hurts my relationships then rather than me just bringing up the minor thing that is bothering me. And it just turns into a whole thing of now the other person is upset because I’m being passive aggressive with them.

Ciara Rubin (19:46.454)
You know, I think that’s really self-aware. think that’s really powerful. And that’s like on my eye. That’s on the list of like green. Okay. Like being self-aware, even when it’s painful, even when it’s annoying. And yeah, I wrote a book about friendship and I still have moments where I’m not the best friend or I make a mistake. And so, you know, it’s not about perfection, but it’s about

Jess Diamond (19:57.101)
What’s that?

Ciara Rubin (20:11.394)
self awareness and taking that inventory and being willing to look at your shadow and say, Okay, let’s shine the light on this. Like you said, call me out on this, please. And so that’s, that’s really beautiful. I think that’s amazing. And that’s one of the really fun parts for me. It’s fun for me. But about the red, yellow, green light frame lurk is you’re looking at all these qualities. And then you’re saying like, Okay, this person does this, this person does this, but then you do start to self reflect in their like,

Do I do this? I do that. I do this really good, but I also do that, you know? So I think that’s really, really cool.

Jess Diamond (20:49.199)
Yeah, unless you’re someone like me who really gets in her head of I was listening to a diary of a CEO podcast and she was talking about, she was talking about people who lie. And I was like, Oh my God, do I lie? And I don’t even realize because she was like the end of it. And the end of your sentence will go up if you’re unsure if you’re lying. And I’m like, do I do that? And I’m thinking every single sentence I say out loud and I was like, am I ending with a high pitched voice at the end? So there is

There is some way of being too self aware. But yes, I agree. It is good to be self aware and then do something about it. A lot of people can recognize these traits about themselves and then not follow it with action to start to grow past it. There’s like, I know this. Yay, me, I’m self aware. That’s great. And then they sit with it because they have this like, yeah, I know I do this. It’s like, OK, how do we stop doing that?

Ciara Rubin (21:43.252)
Yes, yes, we all have dysfunctional behavior. We all have shadows. We all have woundings that we are trying to heal, trying to look at. So I think that’s such an important point that you made that like I teach shadow work. That’s basically basically what I teach, whether it’s intuition development and confidence growth or female friendship. It’s shadow work. And an important part of shadow work is taking a look at, what do I what is what is bothering me?

Why is that bothering me? Where did that come from? Where did that belief come from? And then taking a look too at the dysfunctional behavior that that belief created, that that trauma created within you. And then creating those new habits, new neural pathways, new behaviors. And it’s uncomfortable. It’s uncomfortable to do that. But I mean, that’s what we’re doing. We’re breaking cycles and we are doing better than we did before. So.

That’s a great way to segue into red light, red light behaviors. So these are things that could be deal breakers, could be friendship ending, definitely would warrant some type of heart to heart conversation or open conversation where you’re talking to her about things. One of those things would be jealousy. So if you find that she gets jealous,

whether she’s expressing it verbally or you can feel the vibe, some kind of something’s off with her. If you’re hanging out with other people, if you’re hanging out with other women, or maybe you’re hanging out with somebody who’s a little bit more successful than her in some area of life that she’s really wanting to up level, maybe she’s feeling a little threatened by that. That is something to be really aware of, definitely being aware of. But…

Talk to her about it. You know, like, how do you feel about me hanging out with this person? Why do you feel like that? Maybe it’s something that she can get past and maybe it’s something that she’s gonna deny and then you say, bye Felicia. I’m moving on from that. With gradual boundaries. Another red light behavior is ghosting. Okay. We are not ghosting anymore in 2025. The name of the game is gradual boundaries. Okay.

Ciara Rubin (24:00.716)
Getting ghosted sucks. It really hurts. And ghosting someone else is also painful, right? There isn’t a single, and I’ve done it, believe me, in the past. I’ve done it where I’ve ghosted somebody and there hasn’t been a single time that I’ve done that, that I haven’t felt guilty about it because it’s just a lack of emotional maturity. It’s a lack of an ability to deal with the situation. So instead of ghosting somebody, maybe they are.

have exhibiting yellow or red light behaviors. You can draw gradual boundaries. And what does that mean? So that means that if you are hanging out with them in person and you always are liking their stuff on Instagram and you’re always texting, you can pull back a little bit. Maybe you see them once a month or every other month for a while or every couple of months.

Maybe instead of texting them back right away, you wait a bit. You give it a few hours or text them back the next day. Maybe you mute them on Instagram for a little while so that you are just sort of clearing your energy field and wondering to yourself, like, do I miss them or do I not? Do I need to have a conversation? Just giving yourself some space because sometimes when you are so close with somebody,

and talking to them all the time, it’s hard to have clarity. And it’s hard to know if they are really a good influence on your life or if they’re a negative influence on your life. setting those gradual boundaries. And when you do that, they will feel it. Whether you say something or not, energetically they will feel it. So they may try to come in and talk to you more if they struggle with anxious attachment style, which we can get into. But, you know, just

See how they respond to you setting those gradual boundaries. And be willing to have any conversations that you need to have once you have that clarity. Or if they spur you by asking, what’s going on? I can feel your energy is different. Be willing to address it. But don’t ghost. Don’t ghost them.

Jess Diamond (26:09.295)
Yeah, I was fine when you were saying that because at the time of us recording this episode, I did a ghosting episode got released. this is episode 109 and episode 104 was on ghosting. And then the episode that comes out right before this one is on jealousy, but it’s on why jealousy is a good thing and what it means and what it can show you. And I feel like you were mentioning part of it. So I want to make sure that I got this right of it’s okay if your friend is jealous of you.

Ciara Rubin (26:17.953)
of HPEX.

Jess Diamond (26:38.295)
if they’re able to get past it. But if it’s something that they’re going to keep festering or to your point deny, that’s when it is a red light, like do not have this person in your circle, they’re not good for you. But it’s like, feel like jealousy is a natural components and natural emotion for you to feel. But you have to know how to get past it and why it’s bothering you and be able to talk about it rather than just being like, that person’s always jealous of me. Like she’s done versus like I know I get jealous of my friends.

I do like it’s it happens I get jealous but it’s not to the point where I’m like throwing it at them or I’m mad at them and I’m sure if any of them ever confronted me like are you jealous of me that can we talk about it I’m not gonna deny it I’m gonna be like yeah I’m jealous of this because I don’t have it and you have it and I’ve had those conversations I’ve had with in regards to dating of like I was single and so was my friend now we’re both in relationships but she

I’ve said this on, I think I say this on the jealousy episode where like she was dating all of these guys and I wasn’t getting any dates and I was jealous of it and I was very upset. I wasn’t upset with her more so whenever she tried to level it with me of her, she would say that she’s in the same position as me and I’m like, no, you’re not. And that’s where it would come up. Like we are not in the same exact position, but it is. So is that correct though? Where jealousy.

Ciara Rubin (27:50.711)
You

Jess Diamond (27:59.009)
If your friend is, if you feel your friend is jealous of you over a lot of things, hopefully not a ton of things, but like maybe every now and then of like you get a promotion, she didn’t, or you get a new job, you get a boyfriend, you get a better body, whatever it is, like your friend is jealous of you for some accomplishment you have achieved. It’s okay for them to feel the jealousy if they can get past it. It’s not okay if they’re avoiding it.

Ciara Rubin (28:23.116)
Yeah, I think so 100%. Like you said, jealousy is sort of an indication of something that you want, something that you are craving. Now, if you are having that self-awareness to say, I’m feeling jealous or I’m feeling like I’m comparing myself to them, you know, that’s really good because then you can say to yourself, okay, what am I jealous of? Why am I comparing myself to them?

Okay, maybe it’s because they have something or they’re embodying something that I don’t have yet or have not empowered myself yet to be, to have. And I’m gonna do the inner work because I want that thing. And because that person’s in my life, that means it’s close to me. That means it’s coming closer to me, that manifestation driftwood concept again. Yeah, so like you said, jealousy is a normal emotion.

Jess Diamond (29:10.349)
Yes.

Ciara Rubin (29:16.936)
that needs to be dealt with. you’re, yeah, if you’re denying it, if you’re trying to sweep it under the rug, if you’re trying to be around them and act like you’re happy, but there’s like just that little, like that little kernel of something, something under there, not good.

Jess Diamond (29:32.301)
Yeah. Okay. So I want to stay on topic of the red lights, because that’s kind of where this episode stems from is the not so great sides of friendships, because not all friendships last forever. I think we can all think back to at least one toxic friendship encounter and just like kind of shutter about having that interaction and having that relationship with them. How can someone bounce back from

a bad friendship. So from recovering from a breakup or recovering from setting boundaries and like weaning that person off of you and having that person out of your life. So bounce back as in be able to feel confident in their ability to make new friends. I know that was something I was really, really hard on myself about of doubting my ability to make good new friends because I picked a bad friend and it didn’t it ended

It didn’t end toxically, but it ended not in my favor of as in we’re not friends anymore and it ended abruptly. So I really started to feel insecure of my ability to make new friends. So how can someone bounce back from a bad friendship?

Ciara Rubin (30:39.938)
Yeah, bouncing back from a bad friendship is a lot like healing from a romantic breakup. You know, it’s so funny because we hear all these things in society and culture of like, okay, when you have a bad breakup with a boyfriend or a girlfriend, you know, take some time to be single, take some time and, you know, get your groove back and remember who you are and take better care of yourself and focus on your hobbies and, you know, all of these things and all of that applies.

after a friendship breakup as well, bouncing back is, you know, and the other part of it as well is taking a look at how you co-created that friendship because there were two, just like in a romantic relationship, it takes two. So maybe she was a bad friend, but why did you attract that friend in the first place, right? What were you meant to learn from her? Because every single relationship is a teacher.

is a teacher, is a mirror for us in some way, right? So take a look and be radically honest with yourself about, you know, what are the things that triggered me about her the most? Because generally the things that trigger us about other people are things that we do that we don’t want to admit or that we’re not really aware of yet. They might be doing it at a 10 and we might be doing it at a five on a regular.

but there’s still a mirror. So I think that’s in a really important part of bouncing back from a bad friendship because you don’t want to just continually manifest the same type of friendship over and over and over again because until you heal that, until you take a look at what you brought to the equation, you’re gonna keep attracting the same lesson until you learn it.

Jess Diamond (32:34.241)
Yeah, I know for me when I started to go out and make new friends, it was really paying attention. I’m someone who is very definitive yes or no. And I can I know myself well enough to catch whenever I’m like the I don’t know like they were like they were nice. They were a good person. I had a good time. If I have any of that I don’t know and if it’s not a fuck yes, I’m not like yes, I love this person.

they’re not in my inner circle. And that’s like, they can stay in acquaintance, they can stay like a referral in my network, but they’re not, I’m not going to actively try to bring them into my life, because I trust my intuition and my energy in that level in that way. So I know how I feel about that person after I hang out with them. like, how do do I feel like my cup was filled? Do I feel like I want to see them again? Like how if I’m unsure to any extent?

It means that they’re not meant for my inner circle and going off of that. And that’s how I’ve helped myself be able to bounce back from bad friendships. It’s really going into it is, is that actual person for me or not and being okay if they’re not, and it doesn’t make them a bad person. It doesn’t mean they did anything wrong. It just means that we don’t jive on the level that I need my inner circle to jive with me on.

Ciara Rubin (33:54.264)
Yeah, totally. That is totally, totally valid and I agree with you. And this isn’t really devil’s advocate, but it’s a little, it’s something that I learned from my personal experience as well is that sometimes for me in the past, when I feel a fuck yes about somebody, it’s a great indication, but it also could be hormones, like hormones. Like, you know, when you first meet a boyfriend,

or you first meet somebody that you’re really attracted to and you’re just like, my gosh, they’re amazing. And it’s just like all these rush of chemicals and it’s like, and it’s like, it’s gonna be a Taylor Swift song, right? Like, it’s gonna be forever or it’s gonna go down in flames. You know what I’m saying, right? You could tell me when it’s over if the high was worth the pain, right? So sometimes when you have that rush and it’s like, fuck yes, she’s amazing. my gosh, I’m so excited. It actually could be toxic.

it actually could be very toxic because that is a typical narcissistic pattern. Now be careful, that’s a dirty word. A lot of times I talk about it a lot in the book. The core of narcissism is low self-esteem and self-loathing. We all have a little bit of that. And just because we might have some narcissistic traits, some traits of self-loathing, some traits of low self-esteem doesn’t mean that we’re a full-blown narcissist.

But that is how most narcissistic type relationships start out is full on love bombing. I love you. You love me. I’m going to tell you my life story. The second or third time we hang out, I’m going to tell you I love you. Before we’ve been hanging out for six months, I’m talking about friendship now. And then all of the sudden, like, no, what happened? I let her in too quickly and too and too much. And so how am going to get out of this? Because like

She does this bad and that bad and that bad. And so now I’ve got to ghost her because it’s going to go down in flames. Right. So for me in the past, sometimes, sometimes some of the best friendships that I’ve had end up being sort of pattern interrupts. They aren’t that typical. my gosh, she’s amazing. It’s sort of like a slow burn, sort of like a yeah, she’s cool.

Ciara Rubin (36:15.852)
and then I kind of go back to doing my thing. And then we kind of meet up again and it’s like, yeah, she’s really nice. Like I really enjoy talking to her. She’s awesome. But it feels a lot more like this balanced instead of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, right? So not to detract from what you’re saying and I trust that you trust your intuition and I believe in that wholeheartedly, but do want to give another perspective.

Jess Diamond (36:41.133)
Yeah. Yeah. And I’m glad you did. Cause I think it’s for me, it’s the yes, I want to see this person again, not yes, I’m on such a high, I’m obsessed with this person. So like, think there are two distinct differences of your yeses and that one could be back to dating analogy is like one could be like the butterflies in your stomach or like your heart racing or like you’re just like infatuated with this person. And the other one is you generally want to see them again and you’re excited to see them again.

Ciara Rubin (37:10.562)
Yeah, for sure. it’s, there’s like, it’s especially I think, woman to woman, there’s this joke that’s been around for years, like, what do lesbians bring on a second date? The moving van, have you heard that before? Yeah, because we are so loving and we’re so emotional as women and I, you know, I don’t identify as a lesbian, but I can really still see the pattern come to life in female friendships where we wanna.

Jess Diamond (37:24.579)
Yes, yes I have.

Ciara Rubin (37:38.914)
We wanna go in, we want that community, we miss having that community, that tribe of women around us all the time. And so when we find somebody that we click with, sometimes it’s just a little too deep, too quick.

Jess Diamond (37:52.013)
Yeah, agreed. I want to ask you a question because this is something that comes up a lot in, I feel like in the 20 something world where especially as like because you’re moving to new cities and you’re meeting new people and there is, I want to say a trend of when a girl

when you meet a girl and she doesn’t have any friends like believe her and believe the reason why she doesn’t. I want you to speak to that side because like yes, there’s the one hand of me that was something I felt really insecure about is like I didn’t have any friends coming off of a friendship breakup. But it didn’t mean I was a red light walking through and I’m crazy. Like I very I very much take pride in not being crazy. I don’t have crazy eyes like I’m pretty, pretty level headed for the most part. I have my moments, but I’m level headed.

Ciara Rubin (38:14.574)
Hmm.

Jess Diamond (38:37.839)
But there is the other side of it of meeting a girl who has no friends and we’ll say like, yeah, no, like I used to be friends with that person. I’m not friends with that person anymore. Like I don’t have any friends. I’m trying to make new friends. I just want girlies in my life. And it’s actually because she’s the red light and she’s the problem. So I want to hear your thoughts on that ideology, that trend that people commonly talk about when they go to want to make new friends.

Ciara Rubin (39:03.852)
Mmm. I love it. I love that you asked me that and we’re gonna go pretty deep on this one because One of so in that at the end of the book I talk about how to spot a good friend and then how to treat a good friend So in the part where I talk about how to spot a good friend There’s three qualities and the third one is their friendship track record So the first one is how they treat you the second one is

Are they growth oriented? And are they actually going after their goals in whatever area of life that they have the goals doesn’t have to be the same area of life as you. And then number three is their friendship track record. Now this isn’t a hill to die on because just like you, I also had a period in my life where I had no friends. I have had you know, my entire wedding party of bridesmaids.

left my life when I had my spiritual awakening. weren’t they weren’t interested in that version of me, right? I had I’ve had a couple of groups fall apart, right? So you could suffice it to say I’m a walking red light, right? But it’s the healing part of it. It’s the self-awareness part of it, overcoming it, changing the patterns, right? And so somebody’s friendship track record is not something that could make or break a friendship, but it also could.

It also could. So you do want to look for evidence like do they have a friend in their life that they’ve had for at least five years, I would say, at least five years. Now, some people, you know, don’t aren’t really friends with people they went to high school with. That’s fine. You don’t have to. That doesn’t mean that you peaked in high school if you still have friends that are in high school, but that’s rare. It’s OK if you don’t still have friends that you went to college with. But.

some solid friend, that’s a good indicator that she has a good track record, or you can take a look, and I said we were going deep, at her relationship with her mom, or if she has sisters with her sister or sisters, what are those relationships like? Now, if she has a difficult relationship with her mom, that doesn’t mean that she can’t be a good friend.

Ciara Rubin (41:14.208)
And it does mean that she has some core woundings around female relationships, okay, that are going to come into play in your friendship. All right, and, you know, I’m speaking as somebody who has a difficult relationship with my mom. So, you know, that’s really the core, one of the core wounds that come up and cause problems in friendship is the mother wound.

Okay, so you wanna take a look and see, like my two best friends that have been in my life for 10 years, one of them has an amazing relationship with her mom, and the other one has three sisters, and she has an amazing relationship with one of her sisters, and good relationships with the other two sisters. Okay, and so you just wanna take a look at that track record, but again, like I said, don’t let it be make or break, just…

kind of keep that in the back of your mind and notice her relationships with other people.

Jess Diamond (42:13.227)
Okay, what if, well, I guess this would be a big what if. So it’s gonna be a big one. I’m gonna warn you in advance. What if they are an only child and mother has passed away?

Ciara Rubin (42:21.806)
Definitely going to be a mother wound if the mother has passed away. Yeah, that’s very painful. having, yeah, I mean, and I, yeah, I, well, I don’t know. She’s not only child, but I do know someone who lost their mom when they were very young and she’s like a new friend. There are, there’s going to be some woundings there for sure. She will have some abandonment.

Jess Diamond (42:31.927)
I’m not thinking of anyone in particular, but so I want to say that.

Ciara Rubin (42:51.19)
wounds, she will feel guilt, like survivor’s guilt. There will be a lot of things there that are a struggle and rightly so. that’s one of those things where your pain can either sink you or become your purpose. And so if you can take events like that, say having a difficult relationship with your mom or having lost your mom and alchemize those things,

intentionally focus on healing those things and creating new neural pathways, new perspectives, processing those emotions, then you can overcome that and you can have amazing healthy friendships. It’s just, we all have our thing. We all have our thing or a few things that we have to overcome in this life that we came in to overcome.

I really believe that we agree to certain relationships and certain things happening in our life. You could call it destiny. You could call it soul contracts. I also believe in free will. But like, you will experience the exact woundings that you need to experience that if you heal and overcome those things, you will be unstoppable. But you have to make a choice on whether that’s gonna be your story or not.

Jess Diamond (44:15.055)
I could not agree more. think from, well, it’s like from a relationship perspective of dating, it’s like I broke up with my ex and then six months later I moved to Charlotte and I, month and a half into living here, if not less, I met a guy and we were texting and it was great. And I go on the first date with him and all of a sudden all of these, I’m gonna say red flags, all of these red flags that my ex had.

was coming through this guy and I was telling my friends I was like, guys, this is the universe being like, hey, did you learn your lesson over there? And me being like, yes, yes, I did. Don’t send that again. Like this is done. We are shutting this down. But yeah, I believe I definitely believe in that we have lessons that need to be learned and you’re going to keep repeating that same lesson until you have fully learned it and are able to get past it.

Ciara Rubin (45:09.39)
Absolutely. Absolutely. you know, for me, in a personal example, in the book, Stella is one of the main women that really hurt the relationship with her is what prompted me to write the book, honestly. And when that situation fell apart, it was so intense and so painful. There was a whole group of women that were involved. And then a year later, very I healed a lot. I did a lot of inner work.

I wrote part of the book and then a year later, a similar situation, not the same. I made different choices, but some still the same happened again a year later, but this time it was much less painful. It was much less intertwined and I’ve handled it a lot better. So yes, the universe will keep bringing you those same lessons and helping you really sort of polish that diamond, so to speak.

so that you are all smoothed out and you finally get it and you finally take your power back and do you, right? Do the real version of you because in my viewpoint, like shadow work is really like peeling away layers of the version of you that you developed in order to survive as a child, as an adolescent, any traumas that you went through. And so as you do that shadow work, you are peeling off layers, peeling off

things that are obstructing you from viewing things as they really are.

Jess Diamond (46:37.911)
Yeah, mean, it’s friendships get complicated. think any relationship has its complications, but knowing who you are and what you want out of your friendships and also knowing that when you go to make your list of qualities and characteristics you want from a friend is that it doesn’t all have to be from that same one person. So you can have different friends that serve different purposes. So not writing someone off because they don’t check off all the boxes, but knowing that like they can check a really big box.

And then you can have someone else in your life that checks another really big box and knowing who you go to for what based on what you’re working on. I’ve talked about this in several episodes before, like I have different friends that have those different purposes. And yes, I have probably like one or two friends that I do go to for absolutely everything. But I also, if they’re not available, have someone else that I can go to for a specific area of my life or for specific, specific need that I have in that moment.

Ciara Rubin (47:33.886)
Mm. Yeah, that’s a lot of pressure to put on somebody to like be your everything, including like a romantic relationship. you know, for years, my husband was my everything. And that was a lot of pressure. That was a lot, to put on him. And so having friends in my life, having female relationships, having friends that serve different purposes, or that, you know, bring different gifts to your life is amazing, because then you’re not

being codependent, you’re not having that anxious attachment style, and you’re able to spread things around. And also remembering that you have yourself. You have yourself. something that is going to make you a good friend is actually focusing on yourself and moving forward on your own goals and taking good care of yourself so that you’re able to show up as your best as much as you can.

Jess Diamond (48:29.443)
Yeah, if you’re constantly focusing on everyone else and what they’re doing or what they’re not doing and how it pertains to your life, you’re not going to create strong relationships. You need to focus on what you’re doing, what you want out of your life, and allow the people into it that are going to support it as well as how you can support them.

Ciara Rubin (48:46.956)
Yeah, agreed.

Jess Diamond (48:49.167)
I to ask one final question because I always love to leave it with a tip. So what is a final tip for someone listening who wants to, we’re going to switch it, switch the narrative around of we’ve talked about like friendship endings and red lights and all those things that you don’t want. So what is a tip for someone listening who wants to make a best friend in this adult world, but they don’t quite know how to progress someone from acquaintance to bestie level and don’t want to love bomb them.

Ciara Rubin (49:17.76)
Yeah, I think take it slow is a major tip. But what I wrote down on my notes is, is be willing to go deep and be brave enough to risk rejection. Because, you know, keeping your heart open after being hurt is actually a sign of wisdom. It is a sign of maturity and power and and purity really like having that pure heart.

Being hurt and still being willing to open yourself up to a potential best friendship is very, very powerful and very evolved, honestly. So that would be my tip is if you’re wanting to progress somebody from an acquaintance to a bestie level, take your time, take it slow, but be willing to go deep and be brave enough to risk rejection.

Jess Diamond (50:11.791)
Okay, and I want to add to that is how important is one-on-one time with this specific person versus group, as in group saying three or more people constantly hanging out.

Ciara Rubin (50:23.786)
one on one time is very important. It’s very important. I would say both are important, honestly, because one on one, you’re going to get to see eye to eye. And you’re going to get that like unfiltered, uninterrupted, like who is this person? So you’re able to really dial in and feel into your intuition, feel how it feels in your body, like you were saying earlier, to be with them. Do you feel energized or drained after you hang out with them one on one?

Right? That’s a really good indicator. But also hanging out with them in a group is important because you want to notice like when you’re hanging out with them in a group, is she always hanging out with other people in the group but not really paying any attention to you? That is one thing that people miss that kind of could make a friendship implode. And I’ve had that happen before where when we’re one-on-one, it’s all good. We’re locked in. It feels amazing.

but then when we’re in a group, I never see her, right? So you just wanna be aware of both. So I think both are real.

Jess Diamond (51:31.471)
Okay, well, this is great. So thank you so much, Sarah, for coming on How to 20-something. Where can people find you if they want to work with you, buy a book, follow your content, or ask you any questions?

Ciara Rubin (51:43.244)
Yeah, thank you so much. This has been really fun. So my website, it’s pretty easy. Everything is my name. So sierrarubin.com, C-I-A-R-A-R-U-B-I-N, not quite like the sandwich, sierrarubin.com. And then on Instagram, I’m at sierrarubin. That is the best place to connect. Although I do have a YouTube channel where I have several videos about female friendship tip videos.

Videos where women have submitted their friend drama and I give my reaction and advice to it. So lots of fun over there as well

Jess Diamond (52:18.287)
check that out. And you guys know the drill that all of this is already going to be linked in the show notes for you to access right now. Otherwise, this does conclude another episode of how to 20 something. If you learn something new, if you liked what you heard, if you are ready to make a new friend or break off a toxic one, then please share this episode, send it to a friend, maybe a new friend, I don’t know, maybe not a new friend, because it’s going to be titled not all friendships last forever.

Ciara Rubin (52:19.201)
Yeah.

Jess Diamond (52:45.485)
don’t send it to a friend. But post on social media. Give me a five star rating. Just do something that’ll help me reach all the 20 somethings aimlessly walking around this earth. And as always, I can’t wait to be in your headphones again next week with another brand new episode.