Jess (00:02.309)
Welcome back to another episode of How to 20 something where today I’ve brought on a guest to help you with your anxiety. By definition, anxiety is a feeling of worry, nervousness or unease often about an imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome. I’ve known about anxiety my whole life. I think to some extent we all have, but I grew up with a sister who would suffer from anxiety -ridden panic attacks.

I recall my own anxiety spiking across middle school and high school when it was time to take an exam. And then as I got older and came across different life experiences, my anxiety would heighten. Currently, being a business owner creates a lot of anxiety. Being an adult alone comes with its own trials and tribulations and add in any undesirable event that occurs in your life. And you can almost guarantee that your anxiety will surface. I mean, it’s why I felt Inside Out 2 was so relatable.

which if you haven’t watched that yet, I highly recommend you do because it felt like Pixar was in my head and while they were creating this movie. But at the end of the day, our anxiety is almost impossible to get rid of since it stems from all of the unknowns that this world has to offer, which I’ve mentioned on several episodes already. However, just because anxiety is becoming more and more common does not mean it’s normal and that you should be suffering all the time.

or anytime your brain likes to mess with you. Today’s episode is designed to help you better understand your anxiety, know the different techniques to help manage it, and how to not let your anxiety win, or in other words, get the best of you. So who better to bring on to discuss these matters than anxiety coach Morgan Pambiak -Pambiako. From gym teacher to health coach, from traveler to wannabe settler, Morgan has taken her greatest health challenges

and turn them into an opportunity to help others. From CBD expert to anxiety coach for introverts to soon to be children’s book author, Morgan is currently building a real solution for women by extracting the same essential life -giving tools that guided her from severe panic attacks and chronic pain to building a life with no physical, mental or social boundaries and a business she loves, 1 % at a time. Hi Morgan, welcome to How to 20 something.

Morgan Pambianco (02:23.672)
Hey Chas, thank you for having me on.

Jess (02:26.575)
Well, I’m happy to have you on. Now, I think you have a relatable journey of experiencing peak anxiety and stress in your 20s and having that time in your life feel like a major struggle bus. Off air, you and I talked about how most people in their 20s are struggling and that’s why I became a coach because I went through the trenches on my own and then became the resource I once needed. You also became a coach based on your own story. So can you?

briefly walk us through what happened in your 20s that led you to becoming a health coach and an anxiety coach.

Morgan Pambianco (03:01.24)
Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for the intro. Twenties are something else. And every single year has its own. It’s like, I don’t want to say it’s the longest time of your life, but it feels like you really are in the trenches every single year. So yeah, I had no plan whatsoever to become.

a health coach, an anxiety coach, none of it was in the plans. I liked wellness, I liked exercising, but that was kind of, I just enjoyed sports as a kid. Yeah, crazy story. I was 23, which is super young to be experiencing this. I was a full -time gym teacher, kindergarten through eighth grade, and I got a horrible flu.

I think that probably was the first time I ever had it, but I just was not expecting. I mean, I was bedridden for probably like two months, hallucinating, you know, just horribly dehydrated. Anyway, I recover, quote unquote, only to realize that maybe a month later I didn’t fully recover. And all of sudden it started becoming just day to day things like, gosh.

waking up with a joint pain, sudden panic attacks and not understanding they were panic attacks. I actually went to the ER thinking my heart was going to explode. I remember calling my mom and it was just like this whole thing and she was like, did you have coffee? what, you know, I’m a little bit sensitive to stimulants too. Anyway, lo and behold, I’m struggling with this for way longer than I needed to be for months and months and months before.

I’m doing my typical middle of the night research. That famous Google, what can I do to combat all of these happenings? And a lot of it really being the mental game. And my mother -in -law, funny enough, sent me a post on Facebook to the Health Coach Institute. And I actually went through the certification to become a health coach because it was partially a personal development program. So.

Morgan Pambianco (05:15.736)
Because I literally got to a point, I mean, I can speak to this now very freely, I was at a point where I genuinely, it was so debilitating mentally and having very serious physical ramifications that I thought my body was actually killing me from the inside out. Like that is how physical it became. It was so bad. And that was just my absolute turnaround point was just going through this process and

Honestly, that’s why I’m here today.

Jess (05:48.217)
Wow, did you have any hints of anxiety prior to the full on attacks that happened after you recovered or quote unquote recovered from the flu?

Morgan Pambianco (06:00.1)
Yeah, good question. So for sure, I mean, I was like a shyer kid. I was definitely an introvert as we would describe it today. Had trouble kind of being myself. I would call myself kind of a chameleon. Like I would just fit myself into whatever situation I was in. But nothing. It was like maybe zero to 10. It was probably like two, three. Wasn’t really super aware of it.

In college, definitely before exams, social situations, but it was just like, this made it kapow, so much worse, a whole different monster. And that could have just been the time in my life too, undergoing stress for a really long time and then your body hosting a virus or any kind of sickness. I’ve heard this kind of thing happen with mono. This is not a unique story if you’ve undergone a more serious injury or sickness.

Jess (06:58.797)
Yeah, and you started with telling your story of feels like your 20s are the longest decade of your life or the longest time of your life. And I joke about it. It’s like every year feels like it’s bringing on one new life experience that I didn’t expect and I didn’t want. But by the end of the year, I look back and I was like, I needed that. I needed that to grow more and become a better human and a better adult and know the world and know myself a little more. So how did your

Morgan Pambianco (07:12.292)
Thank

Jess (07:27.095)
anxiety story help propel you in a similar way or within your own words.

Morgan Pambianco (07:33.574)
my gosh, well, learning these things when I just started going through that process, just for my own understanding and my own healing was like, how do people not know about this? Why isn’t this being discussed? Why? And I am the perfect example. This is exactly why I am here because I was for, you know,

Whatever it was, you I learned this survival instincts, whatever it was, my parents, you know, to get by, you zip your lips, you remove yourself from those situations, no confrontation. Like you make yourself so small that your needs, your, your everything, you don’t even believe that there’s a problem. You just hide and make yourself so small.

that you can’t possibly even fathom getting help or voicing it because I think a part of you convinces yourself that everything’s fine and you can do it on your own. So I was that person and I’m still, it’s something that I’m still working on. It’s not like you ever get to a point where like, okay, I’m perfect, I’m done. But things get so much easier, I think back and it’s funny saying this because I’m only 30 now.

But I think back to then and I’m like, man, do I feel like I’ve come such a long way. And it is so much of the really simple, just easy start work. It’s not like you need seven years to have this experience at all, especially when you’re working with somebody who’s like, I’ve been there. Let me be here for you because I did not have a person like this who was like, hey, Mork.

Girl, I’ve got you. Like it’s going to be fine. And just, even if you don’t believe it yet, hearing that every little time you believe it a little bit more and a little bit more and you get a little closer and then you’re like, my gosh, I’m actually having this physical experience where I know it’s going to be okay. Wherever, and I mean, I can tell some pretty, you know, depth physical stories. Like it got bad. So I wholeheartedly believe that wherever you are at in that journey, physically.

Morgan Pambianco (09:48.61)
There is always something that you can do towards your healing. Always, always, always.

Jess (09:53.813)
I agree. At what point during your become a health coach journey, which for those of you listening, that’s the same certification I went through. And that’s kind of how Morgan and I found each other was through the alumni groups, how I find a lot of the coaches that I bring on as guests. But at what point during that become a health coach journey did you start to put practice into place? What were those practices? How?

Did you go from having these crazy panic attacks to healing yourself?

Morgan Pambianco (10:26.98)
very, very gently, but I didn’t recognize that right away. And that’s why I really speak into this 1 % belief of not feeling like you have to shoot for the moon and tackle it all and do it all. And that was what I actually wasn’t being told. I was just overwhelmed with trying to learn so much very, very early on. And I didn’t see myself, I didn’t see that we all learn differently. And so even for me,

Not everybody is going to be, I really consider myself like a slower processor. Like I really like to take my time with things and break it down. but when it kind of comes back to what I said before, when I started trusting the repetition of it and okay, maybe I don’t believe it now, but there’s a chance that I can believe it. And in the meantime, I have a mentor, a coach that can hold that belief for me.

That was huge. Like I needed some very real hand holding. So it took me longer because that’s me than it probably would have most people. And it would depend entirely on your situation. But I’d say I really took that entire full year with HCI to go through and absorb every single bit and feel into it. And the learning never stopped. So what took me like to answer your question from

the panic attacks to feeling really confident in if they come on now, I’m not like, I’m never gonna get one ever again. I don’t feel that way at all. feel they’re gonna come up, like we’re gonna have stressors and that is so okay. And I feel really confident in handling that. And I don’t even have anxiety toward getting it, which is a totally different place. So it was, I think one of the things was really knowing that for everybody that’s listening,

There is going to be something and it’s not going to be maybe the first thing you hit, but there is absolutely a tool, five tools that you are personally going to resonate that will work for you. But it is about that repetition and not giving up and really, even if I’m saying this and you’re like, okay, Morgan, I’ve tried so many things, really, really knowing, like whoever’s told you that before, maybe it didn’t work, but maybe it wasn’t the right person, it wasn’t the right time in your life.

Morgan Pambianco (12:52.12)
and that’s why you’re listening to this now. So I’m a firm believer that, you know, there is an option and I found my options. So that’s what I was getting to.

Jess (13:02.541)
Yeah, and we’ll be talking about all of the practices and the options that we have as we progress through today’s episode. So no spoilers just yet. But I do want to ask. So I started this episode with defining what anxiety is. And that was from an online source, just a repeatable online source. But how do you personally define anxiety? And then how can people differentiate between everyday stress and anxiety?

Morgan Pambianco (13:32.824)
Okay, I wanna thank you for asking this question because this is so vital, I think, to where we’re at. Like, I think this question leads us into one of the biggest problems with why people can’t figure this out on their own. When we’re like, if I’m like, hey Jess, like, how’s it going? You’re like, yeah, yeah, good. Like same day, different stress. It is no big deal. We have so normalized stress at this point.

that we don’t even understand. like, well, it’s normal. Isn’t this normal? Like me, like my ears ringing and I’m twitching a little bit. Isn’t that what everybody’s going through? So I’m not going to complain because everybody else is dealing with it. And like, look at what they’re going through and they’re going through. Like, who am I to say something? That was me. I was like, I don’t have kids and I don’t, I’m not 50. Like when I’m working with teachers who are older and they’re like, who do you think you are complaining about joint pain and overwhelm? And I’m like, no.

that is, think the best, like it’s such a good question because, okay, stress, I think, and this is from my experience with people, stress is like that thing that we all say we have when we know we have this internal discomfort, something’s not right, but we have not taken the time to dissect what that is. We know something’s up.

but we haven’t really slowed down or given ourselves permission to slow down and think like, okay, am I overwhelmed? Am I frustrated? Am I upset with somebody? Am I anxious? I think anxiety is a form of stress. And even with an anxiety, there’s different types of anxieties. But stress is kind of this casual societal name that we give to something’s not right.

and I’m gonna kind of mask that and just laugh it off or whatever coping mechanism that I have. So how do you differentiate between that normal everyday stress, which I will tell you, just the society that, and this is my belief, the society that we live in, we should all be very aware to be practicing some kind of implemented stress relief.

Morgan Pambianco (15:55.5)
And that doesn’t have to mean this like protocol, this regimen. That means like bringing joy into your life, doing something from when you were a kid that you haven’t roller skated, like something you haven’t done that just takes you away and puts your focus on something else. It can be that simple. So this is such a personal question. How do you know if it’s stress? And one thing that I’ll just differentiate really quick is that I think of stress also as like

I’m stressed right now in this present moment. And it’s been building up, it’s been compounding. Like if you have a lot of stress, it’s not just like, bang, this moment, I’m having it. It’s been ignored, ignored, ignored. And now the physical signs are kind of leaking out to your conscious, not your subconscious, your consciousness. So I’d say that when that’s happening, it’s in the present, right?

Anxiety deals so much with future stress. It’s so much with this buried anticipation and same thing, anxiety is boom, boom, boom, boom, compounding, compounding, compounding. And a lot of the times our body is like, I am going to bust if you do not give me some kind of release. Like I’m going to release it for you. And that’s when the people, those of us, most of us.

who suppress and have learned this way to like, I mean, I’ll ask you Jess, like, did you have parents or grandparents who, doesn’t matter if you’re sick, you work, work, work, like you suppress, did you have that experience?

Jess (17:38.095)
yeah. Well, I will say my mom was pretty good about if I didn’t want to go to school, she didn’t force me to. And it was because I was very on top of my work all the time, so she wasn’t concerned. But I think it came more so for injuries. If you’re injured, just ignore it. Like, keep going. So different type of pain signal that’s coming through is like, no, you’re not actually injured. Like, just go on. I was like, mom, my pinky’s crooked. She’s like, nah, go to school, put a thumb splint on it, you’ll be fine.

Morgan Pambianco (18:07.426)
Right, Rub some dirt in it, brush it off and get back in the game. Yeah. We learned that and we adopted that and anything that wasn’t that, there can be this association with shame or embarrassment or not good enough. And so many of us, even if that sounds crazy to us, knowingly, it still lives within us. yeah, so to kind of bring that all together.

Anxiety is more future focused, but it can be burrowed deep. It’s something that you can absolutely address presently. But it really is going to be an individual basis, like the person who created that one to 10 paint scale. I was just reading about this. That is the measure because all of us experience pain differently, as you just said. It’s the same exact thing with anxiety. What is your level? And

What are your symptoms? What are, how is it expressed biologically in your body? Because that is another really cool thing that we don’t even attribute things like joint pain, headaches, digestive upset. We’re like, wait a minute, could that be anxiety? Could that be? And most people wouldn’t take it back that far. So yeah.

Jess (19:27.365)
I love that. One of the things you just said, a couple minutes ago, I’d say, was the inviting play as a mechanism for relieving some of your stress. I can agree that breathing techniques are definitely useful. And it’s good for calming your heart rate down and getting you back into the present moment. But I think people get so focused on that, and they’re like, that’s not working, that’s not working, that they forget there are really simple

things you can do like inviting that play back in. And as you were saying that I was thinking I was like, what are some little things that I do that just make me feel happy? And for me, it’s skipping. I will be at one of the gyms that I’m working out and like, gotta go to the bathroom and I will just go skip to the bathroom. It brings me joy. And then another one is at the other gym that I work at. There’s even a Instagram reel making fun of me doing this, but fun and not.

mean way. I am known for bouncing on a balance trainer, which is one of those half balls where there’s a flat side and then a ball type side. I would just bounce on it. I’m like, it’s my trampoline for this 45 minute class. Like I’m going to have fun. If I’m not having fun, you’re not having fun. And it’s, there’s just something so simple that I forget. I take those things for granted that this conversation is allowing me to reflect and be like,

Morgan Pambianco (20:37.56)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jess (20:55.693)
do little things that do bring me joy, that do put me in the present moment, and that do help alleviate any anxiety I might be feeling, even if it’s deep down and I don’t know it’s there.

Morgan Pambianco (21:07.832)
Mm my gosh, they vitamin J joy. It is so essential. I’m in an advanced health program right now. And I can’t tell you how many times we talk about bringing joy back in bringing playback in and then the beauty of connecting the knowledge of the science of what that is doing chemically the signals that are firing when you’re experiencing joy. Who do you have in your life like like Jess or like me? Who do you have? It’s like

What are you doing to bring joy into your life? Who gets to ask you that and allows you to think about that since you were a kid? Like we’re not having those conversations anymore and it’s crazy because it’s so simple but it could be just the thing that you need. So yeah, I love that.

Jess (21:54.661)
In the adult world, it does get dull. I feel like it gets gray, but you don’t have to let it get that way. That’s up to you. think our parents’ generations painted this picture of, yes, it’s work, it’s family business, it’s do this, do that, and in a certain order. And our generation is breaking that barrier down. And I see TikToks all the time of 22-, 23 -year -olds that are like, I hate this. I don’t want a nine to five.

know what to do. Like this is not for me. And I’m like, that’s how I felt. But I didn’t know what was next. It was through my story that my audience has heard. So I don’t need to tell it for a thousandth time, but through my story of unemployment that I got to rediscover that. And it was the time that I gave myself to explore and that explore is the play. It’s my interest that I’m investing more time and energy into that was helping me get through that moment in my life. And now

don’t see the world as dull and boring and gray. It’s vibrant, it’s full of life. There’s an opportunity around every corner and it’s really on you to paint that picture for yourself.

Morgan Pambianco (23:07.076)
Absolutely. Yesterday morning for the first time I skateboarded and I haven’t skateboarded in so long and I can’t tell you I left my and I saw that you do this too like you leave your phone at home and I had nothing with me and I found the smoothest pavement ever like it was just like glassy I felt like I was ice skating and the Sun just happened to be setting and it’s so hard

because of dopamine and all these signals, like we’re so, like, we need that fix of screen time. It is so hard, even if you go for a walk and somebody says, we’ll just do this and you do, but you bring your phone with you, or, you know, you’re thinking about other things, to just be like, no, this is my play time. And it’s like, I’m seeing, like I’m really seeing, I sound like I’m like tripping or something, but like you’re seeing the…

colors of the sunset and you’re actually really appreciating them. And it’s like, I would not have been able to do that and be so present in this moment. And people underestimate how healing that is for your body. It is such a natural free medicine. I just talked about this on Instagram yesterday that even as coaches we forget that you can come back to, it is there for you. You just need to be reminded.

So whatever little ways, knowing yourself, if it’s like a little sticky on the mirror or anything, to do these little things. And I mean, we have five, 10 minutes. Anybody that’s saying, don’t have time, please look yourself in the mirror and know that that is an excuse of not wanting to for another reason.

Jess (24:51.961)
was going to say, at your screen time, and that’ll tell you how much time you actually do.

Morgan Pambianco (24:55.044)
Yeah, yeah. it’s so bad. And even as entrepreneurs, like we’re so guilty of that. Like I can recognize that. But I have knowing that I know I have little blockers little things set in place to remind me, hey, do you need 15 more minutes because you’ve been loving on Instagram today. And I can be like, it’s for my business. well, no, I want to be able to have my cake and eat it too.

be on Instagram and be able to speak to people and go skateboarding and be so detached and okay with it. Yeah.

Jess (25:29.389)
Yeah, and I know I’m not the only one guilty of this, so I will throw myself under the bus right now, but I am really guilty for going on a walk, get some fresh air, get some movement, and taking my phone out and scrolling on TikTok while on a walk. Missing the point. I know I do it. I know I’m not the only one who does it. part of it is knowing that I do this and I try to bring a backpack instead and put my phone in the backpack.

So it’s not as easy to access, but it’s our phones are everywhere. And I think that’s also what has made anxiety a lot more prominent. I there’s so many studies that have come out with Gen Z with millennials, with Gen Alpha of how much our anxiety has skyrocketed within the last 10 years because of social media. And we’re addicted to it. It’s an addiction. So you do need to carve out.

or put time reminders on your phone, do something that’s gonna let you know, like, hey, take a break from screens. You do not need to live your life by your screen. In fact, you should not be living your life by your screen. It’s unnatural. We’re not, we’re humans. We’re not built to do that.

Morgan Pambianco (26:42.602)
No. And it’s like, we could say this till we’re blue in the face. It took me and as Jess was just saying, it takes time still to really implement this. And again, just being so gentle with yourself and starting with five minutes. it let it be as easy as that. Like I’m literally just doing a loop around my house, a loop around the building, a loop just around the block. And I can leave my phone for that.

You have to start somewhere and it can’t be cold turkey. It’s just not going to work. I completely agree. And there is so the data kills me. I have little cousins. I have the little sisters. I see it and crazy the difference like Jess and I were talking about this. The difference between just these couple of years from like me being 30. I probably don’t care if I say your age. Okay.

Jess (27:37.221)
They don’t mind.

Morgan Pambianco (27:39.684)
I’m so used to it. Like my mom and our parents be like, you can’t say and her being 27 and my little sister being 24 and then the next youngest being 19. It is insane to me the gap because I grew up phones in high school, maybe started and it was like, you know, the flip phone and it was just now it being and I experienced this an arm a leg that you cannot detach from.

which it’s good to have in emergency situations and I don’t wanna get down this whole thing, but just knowing the science and the numbers behind what this is doing, like what would your life look like if nothing changed five years from now and you’re still on it five hours a day, I mean, I’m already feeling, I know the consequences, it’s why I’m here. So not to…

put it in like a negative light, but it’s like there is such good reason. It feels so good to even go down that path and kind of find your way back out again and go, my gosh, I know this and I’m still getting duped and captivated. So it’s all of us. It’s so is.

Jess (28:49.111)
Yeah. Yeah, which I love when I’m with friends where none of us are really on our phones unless we’re showing each other something or if it’s like, I got this message. I need to respond. But we don’t sit on our couch next to each other and be on our phones. We are having conversations. We are in the moment. And I think that’s something that I’ve really grown to appreciate about the friends that I’ve built here in Charlotte. I want to.

ask you though, because on this topic of social media and being on your phones and having that be a very known anxiety trigger, because you get into compare and despair and all these things. I had a whole episode on it. But in your experience, what are some common anxiety triggers that maybe someone might not realize is a trigger for them until you bring it to their attention for young adults today, especially those that are in their 20s?

Morgan Pambianco (29:48.051)
I think when I think back to my 20s I say this like I mean literally it’s like yesterday it’s not like I’m still there I still think I’m 29 all the time but

I think it’s so sneaky. The triggers are so sneaky. And you know what? It’s actually, this is, I’m gonna speak into what you have coming up with your workshop on how to have those friends that you found in Charlotte because your twenties are all about, okay, you just left college. Maybe you moved to a new place. You.

You’re growing, like you’re growing in some direction and a lot of your friends that you had before are not growing in that same direction because they’re not working in the same place as you, living at the same place. So honestly, your 20s can be so rooted in isolation and loneliness. And this is a lot of the root that ripples into our triggers. Like for me, my biggest have been.

in the workplace, you just want to fit in. So it’s coming back to that, I will be say, leave all my values behind anything just to mold to being accepted. And so social situations can be, especially if you’re, so many of us are in office or working from home. And honestly, those come with their own set of triggers, but it’s like,

wanting to be accepted and wanting to like really, like you said, like be able to put your phones down and really feel connected to people. That what we value because at the end of the day, we’re all human and we all want the same things, but it’s so easy to forget that and get so caught up in all the fuss of all the little things. And it’s like, as far as the triggers go, I think it seeps, it starts there and it really seeps into all these little things that we notice throughout the day.

Morgan Pambianco (31:47.672)
that we believe are signs that we are or are not being accepted. So it can be anything as like somebody making eye contact or talk about comparisonitis, like you notice that somebody’s not making eye contact with you as much, or are they treating me differently than there is it because I’m younger? Is it because, know, we’re going to focus on, we have this like, if you’ve ever heard of like the reticular activating system, it’s the part in our brain

that decides what is the most important thing for us to be focusing on. So when we’re in survival mode in the workplace, we are looking for signs that we are accepted or not. And so if we’re operating from a fear place, then we’re actually looking for signs that we’re not accepted, which can become so triggering. And if we’re at home, it’s the exact same thing. And we’re like putting these social rules into Zoom, or we’re putting these social rules into our cell phones, into…

Okay, I’m gonna just like go on a moment here of being ghosted and what that means to people. People get so attached to this idea that they’ve been ghosted and my friend, like I love her so much. She is like, this is such a trigger for me. But, and I’ll bring this to her attention. She just did this to me yesterday. I’m checking in on her and she’ll either ignore my texts or just heart it with no reply. And I’m like,

Jess (32:51.958)
my gosh.

Morgan Pambianco (33:16.526)
wait a minute, but isn’t that ghosting? And she’s like, well, yeah, but like, it’s you, like we can. And I’m like, no, like, so you’re choosing to make meaning of who is not responding when some people don’t get back or you don’t get back to them. And it could not mean less to you. So I think things around phones, these social rules we have around phones have become so triggering being left on read. And I’m…

I feel like I’m saying this is like a grandma because I’ve experienced it. I lived through it. I know it. But I have to tell you that coming out the other side when I can still feel some of the triggers and I can still feel it. But when you get to the point where you are so sure of yourself and your values and what matters, that becomes less and less important. And like when you’re focusing on the play and the joy and the people that you want, like you get to be choosy about who your friends are, like which is

what Jess is really talking about in her upcoming workshop. It’s a totally different ballgame because you take back control and it’s no longer a trigger out of your control. You are like, nope, this is what I want and I don’t need that if you’re ghosting me or whatever. I don’t need that energy. So long way around. I think those are some big ones.

Jess (34:34.403)
Yeah, I can agree. And to those of you listening, by the time this episode comes out, which Morgan doesn’t know this, I think this episode comes out probably about a month after the workshop happened. So, because I am a planner and I like to be ahead of things. But if you’re listening to this and you’re like, we, I wish I attended it, email me, I will send you the replay. I will hop on a call with you and talk to you about it, like whatever you want.

Morgan Pambianco (34:45.934)
no!

Jess (35:03.533)
It’s not a one and done kind of thing, because having friends, having your sense of belonging where you live is so crucial, especially in your 20s. And it’s going to continue to evolve and change, whether you like it or not, as you age too, which is part of why I was called into bringing, creating this workshop was because I experienced that last year and I needed to learn how to make friends again. And that.

for me is an anxiety trigger, is that level of acceptance because I was rejected and I’ve worked really hard on not making meaning or not taking rejection personally anymore. And that, if I’m being completely transparent, that practice took about a year and a half of me actively doing and I only just recently started reaping the benefits of not taking it personally. And it is so much more freeing.

Morgan Pambianco (36:00.196)
Okay, there’s this guy. you might’ve, do you remember the 100 days of rejection from HCI Live? Did you try it?

Jess (36:08.805)
Yes. No, but I always thought about it. It’s the thought that counts, right? It’s like where you try to get rejected every single day for 100 days, or like you have to go through your whole day until you get the rejection. And it could be like going to Starbucks and you’re like, can I get this for free? No? Okay, that’s my rejection for the day.

Morgan Pambianco (36:14.998)
Morgan Pambianco (36:33.405)
Yeah, and it’s it’s like he does the most ridiculous with that

Jess (36:37.55)
exposure therapy.

It’s exposure therapy.

Morgan Pambianco (36:42.5)
Yeah, it’s the W, the dubs, as my sister tells me, it’s like the new thing to say, the dubs, is getting the rejection. You are actively seeking it. And if you don’t, like, I don’t want say you’re going to be disappointed by it, but your success means getting it. So it’s this guy, I mean, it was so funny. And this is on, this is a TED talk that you can search on YouTube, 100 days of rejection. But the funniest things in the world, I mean,

He was like, Hey, can I knocking on a random person’s door? Hey, can I play soccer in your backyard? And they’re like, yeah, yeah. And there’s video he videoed himself playing soccer with a little cone in the back yard around like, and it’s the tiniest backyard, or like walking up to somebody and being like, and this was his thing. Hey, can I have $100? And the guy didn’t say no, he said why, but he was so scared that he went, Okay, thank you. And he left and he didn’t even

wait a minute, why do you need it? And it’s like, I can speak for myself. I can use my voice. can like, wait a minute, you would never in a million years expect to go up to a certain stranger, complete stranger and ask for that. And they might actually give it to you. Talk about quick ways to make money. But it’s, it is such a, again, the repetition, the practice, just overcoming that fear, like so what?

Jess (38:02.158)
Yeah.

Morgan Pambianco (38:11.094)
If somebody says no, what are we making that mean? Because, wait, like I’m personally being rejected? No, maybe they don’t like the idea, you might not even know me. It’s just our mind going and filling in the blanks and expecting the absolute worst.

Jess (38:30.265)
Yeah, which a lot of anxiety is, if not all of it, stems from our brain doing that. It’s doing its job. It’s a survival mechanism. I don’t know what it’s doing, but it’s not the best. But can you talk about this getting out of your head and more into your body and then how that helps with anxiety? what does that look like of getting out of your head and into your body? And how is that helping anxiety? I think is a better way to word that question.

Morgan Pambianco (38:43.043)
Ha

Morgan Pambianco (39:00.492)
Yeah. So the reason that this works so well is because again, with the art RAS like that particular activating system, it’s where’s your focus, where your focus goes energy flows. So number one, it’s a really good interrupter when you can when you’re out walking something that I like to do. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried this chess, but color walks. If you’ve ever heard of that, you leave your phone behind, you pick a color and you are

searching. You are actively telling your brain to search for bright orange and you would never think that you would even see it taking a walk in your neighborhood and then bam you see it everywhere. And you are so locked in on that that it actually interrupts the pattern, the neural pathway that your anxiety has carved so many times so the more that we’re anxious about something

the easier it is to just fall into that loop because you’ve done it 10 times. Now you can do it 100 without even blinking. It’s just again, that repetition, that practice, but you can break that, interrupt that. There’s so many ways. So another thing is that getting into our body, when we’re talking about anxiety, a lot of the times it’s stemming from some kind of trauma that we’ve had in the past. And that can be, a lot of the times people express it as like little T trauma or big T. So it’s like something that’s like, whoa.

you went through the wringer or it’s like most people would say this thing isn’t a big deal but it doesn’t matter because it’s what it meant to you how old you were and how your body stored it. So tissue, the tissues that make up our body, our cells, everything stores trauma, it stores memories even if you think about muscle memory like right now I have a broken finger and it’s like I’m

Jess (40:52.005)
.

Morgan Pambianco (40:55.458)
like fascinated by the fact that I can’t open jars right now because this hand and this hand have different muscle memories for how to open a jar. So trying to do it in the reverse is not working, but it just speaks to getting into your body and being able to release trauma is an amazing and very, very fast acting way to interrupt and reroute this typical path that our body usually

thinks through goes down when we’re experiencing anxiety. okay, for example, if you have this song that let’s say like, I don’t know if you had dances when you were in seventh grade, Jess, but let’s say there was this song that like it moved you when you were in your room alone, you could have you could just belt it you had your hairbrush as a microphone, it got into your cells versus a song that you’ve never heard before it comes on in a club and you’re like,

what like what is this like how am I supposed to dance to this total different vibrational energy and even me speaking about this song like my gosh okay this is just my like emo era right like I was a little punk rock chick I wanted my name to be Roxanne I loved good Charlotte I loved black parade my chemical romance blink 182 that was my jam and when I was saying black parade I mean like

I would just be like, I’m getting chills talking about it. Like the energy in my body is different. If I were to put that song on right now and to think about something horrible that has happened in my past and visualize it and sing it out and just belt it and even move into it and start dancing to it. First of all, even if you’re just singing it, most of us don’t think of that as movement, but that’s an absolute form of expression.

and a very powerful one because you’re actually reteaching yourself the confidence to use your voice, but also to move and express and release that is very much almost like a muscular knot getting into places in our tissues. So if we’re simultaneously thinking about this experience and thinking about physically releasing it while we’re singing this song that means so much to us and holds so much power to us.

Morgan Pambianco (43:18.742)
It is like a transformative experience. I know coaches who operate singularly in this methodology and it is phenomenal. It’s something that I do before I’m in a Zoom or in a meeting just to really get into my body and out of my.

Jess (43:38.167)
have never heard of this, so thank you for informing me and now my audience about this. I like to think of like what are practices I do and I definitely will play my favorite songs if I’m feeling anxious. Like if I’m about to give a talk somewhere, I’m very in my head and my heart is racing and I have the nervous poops going on. I’m not ashamed of my head. And to help me is I will…

I will like dance around, I’ll sing to my favorite songs, and then another thing that I do, it’s so nerdy and this is such a niche thing that I’m about to say, but when I was in college, I was a dancer for Dance Marathon all four years, and Dance Marathon, I’ve mentioned this on one other episode, is part of the Children’s Miracle Network, you’re raising money for kids in the hospital. Being a dancer, you’re not actually dancing anywhere, you sort of, this is part of the story.

but you’re on your feet for 26 .2 hours for a marathon. And to help time go by, you’re taught a line dance and it is a mashup of a bunch of different songs and memes. It’s kind of like a play on big booty mix. You know what that is? It’s like a seven minute dance. there’s one year, 2017, is the year that that dance was so good that I will

Morgan Pambianco (44:51.79)
No!

Jess (45:04.837)
go on YouTube and I will type in dance marathon UF line dance 2017 or whatever it may be. It’s like saved into my YouTube at this point. So I don’t have to type a lot. Click on it and I will do the seven minute dance just to get some jitters out. And it’s something that gives me so much joy. It’s a fun dance and it’s such a good memory. But it was like that’s my way of thinking of what you just said is like I actually do that without realizing I was doing that.

And I wasn’t doing it in terms of trauma. So I like that you mentioned that part of it too. Cause that’s something that I had never heard of dancing, singing, belting through, like moving through your trauma in that way that I love that you mentioned. So I just had to give my tangent of a little nerdy thing that I do. But back to the managing the anxiety part is that was, that’s incredible.

Morgan Pambianco (45:51.982)
you

Morgan Pambianco (45:59.928)
And that’s one thing. And it’s neat because we’re probably doing stuff and not even giving ourselves the credit like you had just said. I was doing that just because I loved it and not even knowing that on a cellular regeneration level, this is so good for you. You’re rewriting, you’re creating new neurons, there’s neuroplasticity happening. There’s so much good that comes from doing something so simple.

riding your bike and listening, you know, having your headphones on or like I said, skateboarding, rollerblading if you did that when you were a kid, getting back to things that we absolutely loved. All of these can be healing options for you and there’s so, so many. I think I’m just gonna make like a massive like ways to play and heal and just give you like a hundred and be like circle three.

Do them this week, let me know which one you love the most. Like, know that you have these options and they’re easy.

Jess (47:01.625)
Yeah, I think you should make that. That’ll be a good resource. But I think a lot of this also has to do with your lifestyle. And maybe even like your lifestyle as a kid is way different than what you were as an adult. Maybe I have a personal training client who was not allowed to be active as a kid. He was not allowed to play sports. He was not allowed to do anything. And he comes to our sessions. I meet with him three times a week and he talks about that.

He talks about how it’s a lot more difficult for him. He’s 41 now like this is that’s a big change to make He we started when he was 40. He just turned 41, but we’ve been working together for nine ten months now and It’s just knowing that your lifestyle factors play such a massive role in your anxiety Can you talk about what people can do from on a?

day by day basis, like the way they eat, they move, they sleep, they play, like all of those things and how it can either help or hurt their anxiety.

Morgan Pambianco (48:04.918)
Yeah, I just it’s it’s funny you’re bringing this up. Again, people don’t realize how you do one thing is how you do everything. I’ll just say that that was something that we heard in HCI. And I always am hearing that because it’s so true, who we’re being who we’re showing up as it’s so evident. the reason that I say that is because

so how you’re eating, this is something that goes back when we were first learning about HCI. And I remember hearing it for the first time being like, what? Like, the most important thing is how to be when you’re eating. Like, what does that even mean? Now there’s so many levels to this, right? But you probably know, or you have an idea of what your anxiety symptoms are. So something that I used to always do,

when I was a teacher because we had no time and I knew that I had very, short lunches, one break a day. And I would just be as a gym teacher, you’re just running around in circles all day. So I would go to lunch and I would like running downstairs to grab my lunch, running upstairs, bring it back up from the cafeteria, unboxing it like a crazy person. And then like eating like, like gobbling it up and

I remember when I started learning this stuff, the simplicity of we don’t always have access to the whole foods, the vegetables, maybe the stuff that we’re like, that’s healthier. I’d love to eat healthier. We don’t have that ability all the time. So for those of us that are on the road or just not enough time, there’s still ways that you can, and I know you kind of alluded to breath work earlier, but what I would do was just literally, and this is all that I told myself I had time for.

I would just take two breaths and I made it two because I knew that if I made it more than that, I might not commit. And I would just make sure that my exhale was slower than my inhale. And this is another thing that’s like a really good resource. Like if I said one and only one thing that I want you to take away if you’re about to have a panic and anxiety attack and it is breath work. know that.

Morgan Pambianco (50:26.594)
You mentioned like it’s not for everybody, but I’m gonna rewrite that for you in a second. All that I would do was just make sure no matter what, I would take two breaths before I ate. My exhale was slower than my inhale. If you’ve heard the expression, mind over matter. With anxiety, that is not helpful because it’s like, my mind is the problem. I can’t think my way out of this one. Don’t tell me to breathe and calm down. I can’t.

Yeah, so I want you to think about this instead this tip as matter over mind matter being your biology. So your body has no choice but to follow suit when you exhale slower than your inhale. It doesn’t matter what your thoughts are, what you’re telling yourself. If you are doing that and you are just

Morgan Pambianco (51:31.864)
a little bit longer on that exhale, your heart, your head, everything in between, biologically, it’s a biohack, has to switch from sympathetic to parasympathetic. It forces you to calm down. So if you know that you’re taking back that control and you know why, and you’re just focusing on the way that you’re doing it, wherever you are, that will work. Now,

Jess (51:51.353)
you

Morgan Pambianco (52:01.294)
There’s of course always other factors, but if you just, and again, it’s how you’re breathing, right? Like there’s diaphragmatic breathing, there’s so many different things, but if you just remember that one sliver, and you do that before you eat, we’ve been taught, and there is more research supporting this, that you are going to be digesting your food better. Now, how does that affect anxiety? Okay, that’s how you’re eating, and then there’s also what you’re eating. Anxiety.

really is inflammation in the brain. So when people think, label themselves as depressed or anxious or any, you know, mental thing, no, no, no, that’s just chemical messengers in the brain that are just out of whack, right? Like, inflammation is this type of fat called omega -6, omega -3s, having more of them than omega -6s, as long as the ratio is more three than six, you’re having good, healthy inflammation levels.

So it’s the same thing with anxiety. It’s like if you can be supporting your body in choosing the foods that are minimizing the inflammation, so foods that are anti -inflammatory, foods that are rich in omega -3s, nuts, fatty fishes, things like that, you are supporting your anxiety by what you’re eating, by who you’re being when you’re eating, and that’s just kind of the tip of the iceberg, but we can apply that to the type of ways that we exercise.

And our body types, there’s certain exercises that I’ve learned. I used to love HIIT, like H -I -I -T. And I used to do that before I had my public speaking class in college or before I had a presentation in college. And it actually wound me up more because, and I thought I was doing myself a service, but I would be already sweating and my heart rate would already be accelerated and it would actually take a little bit longer for my heart to come down. I would do it 30 minutes before.

I’m not saying this won’t work for everybody, but I’m saying for me, this was actually problematic. And I realized that the slower foundational breath work things like Pilates or yoga would have been the things that now support me, would have supported me then going into any sort of presentation or education.

Jess (54:22.413)
Yeah, and I will say doing a HIIT workout before anything, before anything that’s going to spike your heart rate, literally just in general, is not good if you have anxiety. It’s not good for your cortisol levels. It’s mocked in the fitness world of it’s for the cardio junkies. It’s for the people that are go, go, go. And it makes sense because the workout style matches their lifestyle. Does not mean it’s good for them. So take that for what you will.

But I agree, mean, I didn’t say like breathwork isn’t for everyone. I may have said that, but what I meant was we all know of breathwork. I do like the way that you explained it though. I think that gives it that extra level of importance of, this might feel silly, but this works. And you should do this even if you feel like it’s not gonna work because it is gonna work.

Jess (55:17.615)
All right, last question I have for you is what is one thing you wish more people understood about living with anxiety?

Morgan Pambianco (55:30.782)
One thing that I wish more people understood living with anxiety, I think people give their power away and they don’t realize that…

Morgan Pambianco (55:44.078)
We make it this huge monster. And even just to intertwine this with the people that are just like me, who…

Morgan Pambianco (55:54.722)
didn’t want to ask for help because we’re tougher than that or we don’t need it or we’ll figure it out. When I think of people that I love that really suffer from this and I think of what I would say to them, like what would you tell if this was your partner or your little sibling or your best friend who was going through this and they didn’t want to reach out for help? I think these two are just so intertwined because

I know myself and I know what I’ve been through with these seven years where I am now. And I hate to even pose it, but it is so true if this was, if you did nothing differently and you just kept saying, I’ll figure it out, I’ll figure it out like a year from now, two years from now, how is that affecting your friendships, your relationships, how you see yourself? So.

What I wish more people knew was that you absolutely, it’s not something that is like this big monster of an ordeal to start seeking help or to work with someone. It can be so darn simple as one conversation changing your entire outlook on your life, on your day, and to be really open to opportunities and not so fixated on, you know, how you get the help necessarily, but just

just having the conversation and that can be a DM, that can be an email, that can be a text, that could be to a friend asking if they know somebody because you really trust their opinion. I mean, there’s so many things I could speak into here, but I think at the end of the day, it’s like, I fought it for so long. I fought accepting help from anybody but myself. And now I don’t know where I would be without mentors and friends and family.

and being able to like vocalize all of this.

Jess (57:55.877)
Yeah, and I mean, we’re coaches. We exist to help you. Even if it is just a 30 minute conversation, it doesn’t mean you have to work with us. You’re not signing your life away. We became a coach because we don’t want to see other people struggle in the same ways that we did. So thank you, Morgan, so much for coming on How to 20 something and talking about your expertise around anxiety.

Where can people find you if they have more questions or if they want to work with you if they’re feeling courageous and are ready to reach out to seek some support?

Morgan Pambianco (58:29.036)
Yeah, I’m a major Instagram junkie. So my handle is a healing habits coach. It’s like healing underscore habits underscore coach. I am like so fast on there because I just friendships, business relationships, everything is on there. And I really pour my life into, mean, I’m on Facebook as well. And I do have a private Facebook group that I’m very sacred about, like only letting people in that are extremely supportive and really

respect this work and wanting it for themselves. So those are, think the two hot items would be like my Facebook group, which is quite, it’s called Quiet Confidence, Easy Anxiety Relief for Introverts and my Instagram handle.

Jess (59:16.197)
and that will be linked in the show notes. So you guys can go find Morgan immediately, join her Facebook group. Otherwise, this does conclude another episode of How to 20 something. If you liked what you heard, if you or someone you know has anxiety and you think this episode was helpful, then please share it, send it to your friend, your cousin, your coworker, post it to social media and tag me and Morgan when you do. And as always,

I can’t wait to be in your headphones again next week with another brand new episode.