We’re back with another episode of How to 20 something, featuring an expert guest to help you in your career journey. Today’s episode is all about how you can uplevel your career, whether that’s in terms of making your resume stand out amongst others, negotiating your salary, or stepping into a higher role either in your company or at a different company. I asked Kate to be a guest on this podcast because she is the best career coach I know, and I can’t wait for her to share her knowledge and expertise with all of you.

And remember, if you want to be a guest on here, either because you’re an expert in your field or you have insight you want to share with other young professionals, then please check the show notes and click the link that says, be a guest. In the meantime, I would like to introduce today’s guest, Kate.

Kate Hudson is a life and career coach providing trusted coaching for professional women to show up with confidence and take control of their careers and lives. After a decade of passionate work as a business leader, teacher and coach, Kate turned her passion for mentoring others into practical knowledge for the real world. Skills that women can use in their everyday lives to achieve their long-term career goals and live with more joy, energy and fulfillment. Hi Kate, welcome to How to 20 something.

Kate (01:55.478)
Hi Jess, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here today.

Jess Diamond (01:59.65)
Of course, thank you for joining me. I’m eager to hear what you have to say about how young professionals can improve and grow in their careers. I want to start from the beginning of the job process, which is focusing on your resume. As in someone listening is thinking, I want a new job or a new position, or even if they’re coming right out of college, the first thing they’re going to do is update or create their resume.

What are some key things someone in their 20s should be sure to include on their resume, aside from the obvious work history, and how should their resume reflect their personal brand?

Kate (02:35.106)
Absolutely. That’s a great question, Jess. And so many people do use their resume simply to list their work experience, which of course is understandable because that’s what a resume is. But I like to think of a resume as something to help you establish trust with a potential employer. And how do you establish trust with a potential employer? Well, first off, you show that you’re capable of doing the job that they’re looking to hire for. So really you want to focus on the job descriptions of the types of jobs you’re applying for.

So for example, if you’re applying for an account manager role, you’re going to want to pull up several job descriptions for account manager roles that look like the types of jobs you might be interested in. Look at the key skills, the key job descriptions, the key functions of the role, and think about how those key functions or key job description points match your experience, and how can you use your resume to bridge those?

So by doing that, you can show your experience and your work history, but you can also show that yes, your work history is relevant in terms of your career. The other thing that I always suggest doing is throwing in specific examples, situations, stories, or projects that you’ve worked on, where you can actually kind of create a narrative and turn it into a story of how the work that you’ve done previously is a good fit for the job that you’re applying for.

And by giving these specific stories and examples and situations, you’re explicitly showing them that you know, and you are capable of performing that job so they don’t have to guess or try to connect the dots based on your previous role. They can actually see, OK, this person has done this for their previous employer and they can do it for me as well.

Jess Diamond (04:17.79)
Yeah, so does this storytelling, in my mind, I’m thinking of it’s a progression of the skills that have advanced over time. Is that what you mean or is there another way you can express a story in your resume?

Kate (04:33.066)
Yeah, great question. So I do think it is important to tell the progression of your career over time. Your career really is a journey. And starting from the beginning all the way up to where you are now is important. But when I say story, I mean, think of a situation or a project or something that you worked on that is relevant to the types of jobs that you’re applying for. And when have you done something in your career that illustrates your skills and illustrates your experience in relation to those jobs?

So perhaps you worked on a difficult project with a team of six other people and you got a certain result or you met some goal with your team, you can actually tell that story on your resume in a concise succinct way, but explain the situation, explain what the results was, almost in like a problem solution format so they can see really clearly how you’ve been in that situation before and how that demonstrates your skills.

Jess Diamond (05:31.078)
Oh, nice. I love that. And then how does this setting up your resume and creating it relate back to your personal brand? Because I know I went to, I was an interior designer. I went to design school. They taught us personal brand in the creative aspect and you had a logo, you had color formats and then it fed into your portfolio. So everything was very color coordinated and it represented you and your personality.

Is that the same for someone that has a more standard corporate 9-to-5 desk job, or is there a different way a personal brand can be represented?

Kate (06:05.77)
If you’re applying for a job that is more creative, like interior design or anything in the design or creative or art field, having a resume with colors in a unique style or different fonts is absolutely appropriate. However, if you’re in the corporate world, I would definitely shy away from that. I would stick to more of a standard resume. You can go on Canva and find all sorts of templates, but so many of them that are…

colored and have different fonts and pictures and icons really aren’t appropriate for the corporate world. And hiring managers really do want to see you use more of kind of a standard template. That being said, you don’t want to be boring either. You want to stand out from the crowd. And again, the best way to do that is by making your resume really explicit to who you are, things that you’ve actually done in your career, stories or projects that you can talk about, your achievements.

so that you can showcase what you’re capable of. And if you are like a really recent grad and you don’t have much work experience or even any work experience, you can talk about relevant projects that you’ve worked on that maybe weren’t paid positions. You can talk about things that you did in college as part of an organization. You can talk about unpaid internships. You know, you can talk about student organizations that you were in or that you were a part of where you contributed.

Those all make up your experience, especially as a recent grad. So talk about those projects you’ve worked on. Tell those stories, because those really do showcase what you’re interested in, what your passions are, and what you’re capable of.

Jess Diamond (07:41.49)
Yeah, is there anything that you’ve seen on clients resumes or even just other resumes you’ve happened to come across? You’re like, this doesn’t really need to be on here. You can kind of cut that out and leave more room for showing your expertise and your journey and your story and everything.

Kate (07:59.914)
The general rule of thumb is that you only need to include your most recent 10 years of experience on your resume. So when I work with clients who are further along in their career, I’m like, if it’s older than 10 years, you don’t even need to put it. But for people who are in their 20s or who are newer in their career, what that means is just college and beyond. So you don’t need to include any high school organizations that you are in. You don’t even need to include your high school on your resume. You don’t need to include your home address.

So really you just want it to be about college and beyond. It’s okay to put the city that you’re in, but these days you don’t even need to put anything more specific than that.

Jess Diamond (08:38.806)
What about GPA? I mean, I’ve heard back and forth with, if you’re freshly out of college, yes, but also no, it’s not needed. What are your thoughts on that?

Kate (08:48.242)
If you’re a recent graduate with no work experience and maybe you’ve graduated like within the last year or you’re applying for your first position post grad, sure, include your GPA, but beyond that, no.

Jess Diamond (09:02.118)
Okay, all right, thank you. And how does creating career goals impact your resume and what would be some helpful tactics and understanding where you stand with your career and its path, either starting right out of college or let’s say it’s probably your first job that you are, like after your first job from college. So now you’re moving into your second job.

Kate (09:24.458)
First, it’s all about getting clear on what your goals are and where you wanna go. And what types of positions are the right next step for you. Once you identify what those positions are, you can start doing some research, exploring LinkedIn, seeing what’s out there, looking at different job descriptions. And I really recommend like researching and studying those job descriptions. Those job descriptions tell you everything you need to know about applying for that position and what they’re looking for.

So print out those job descriptions or pull them up on your iPad and start taking notes and annotating them. Like really get familiar with what these companies are looking for. Because if those types of roles are the next step that’s gonna help you achieve your career goals, you need to know what you’re getting yourself into and what kind of questions they’re gonna be asking you. And then use those job descriptions to start crafting your own resume. You’re gonna get a better feel for the type of language that company or that industry uses.

maybe buzzwords or jargon that the company is using pretty often, and include those in your resume as well. If there’s acronyms in the job description, you can use those same acronyms in your resume as well that show that you’re knowledgeable about that field or that industry or whatever it is you’re applying for. So,

Again, study those job descriptions. Those are gonna give you big clues for what the company is looking for and start to weave those into your resume so you can start to establish your own trust, your own credibility and show them that you are someone who’s capable of that and that sets you up for that next step in that role, which ultimately it sounds like would be a step towards your career goals.

Jess Diamond (11:04.126)
Yeah, and I love that you brought up LinkedIn. I love that you brought up LinkedIn. What can someone do to like start up their LinkedIn profile? How can they use LinkedIn to network? I recommend, I always tell my clients too, that they could, it’s better to find their alma mater, like people that graduate from there that are in that field that they’re interested in and connect to that because they already have that interest. But what are your thoughts on

Kate (11:05.078)
Did that answer your question? Just side note. Okay, okay, got it.

Jess Diamond (11:33.454)
creating the profile and then beginning to network and use it to your advantage.

Kate (11:40.662)
First off, just create a LinkedIn profile if you don’t have one, because it’s such a good way for people to get to know you professionally who might not know you in person. And start with a good headshot as your professional profile photo. You don’t want a blurry selfie, or you don’t want a swimsuit picture, you want a professional profile photo. So add a photo, you also don’t want it to be blank. And then really just get it updated.

You want it to somewhat match your resume and align with your skills. Your LinkedIn profile is also a great way that you can list out those key accomplishments or key projects that you’ve worked in, whether it’s in college or in jobs that you’ve had so far. So use LinkedIn to showcase your skills, your accomplishments, your experience, the things that you’ve done so far. I always recommend in that about section, that’s kind of a summary of you and your experience, write that in first person.

It doesn’t need to be in third person. You can say, I do this, I’ve done that. It can be a little bit more personal, totally fine. And then like you said, start connecting with people. And people who went to your university, your alma mater, that’s a great place to start, is connecting with those people. You can also start to connect with people that you’ve done any type of work with in terms of like an organization when you were in college.

or any really other professional association or organization or networking group that you’ve been in. Any colleagues who you’ve worked with at any position in your entire career can start connecting with friends. And really the cool thing about LinkedIn is the more people that you start to connect with, you’ll also open the door to be able to connect with their connections, which is one of the really neat things about LinkedIn is that by connecting with one person, it opens you up to their network as well.

But also don’t be afraid to connect with someone on LinkedIn who you don’t know, especially if there’s someone at an ideal company that you’re like, I really want to work at that company. And this person is a hiring manager there. Don’t be afraid to send that connection request and shoot them a message and let them know why you wanted to add them to your professional network. It’s not weird. It’s not creepy. That is how people use LinkedIn for networking purposes. So feel free to do that. And then lastly,

Kate (13:59.45)
LinkedIn has specific groups for different fields, for different industries. You can probably find a LinkedIn group for women in engineering or recent graduates from this state. So browse the LinkedIn groups and you can join a group that matches your interest or your profession or who you are and you can start becoming active in that LinkedIn group as a way to build connections and connect with other people who are also in that group.

So next thing you know, you have a pretty robust community of like-minded individuals.

Jess Diamond (14:33.234)
Yeah, you just kind of unlocked a memory for me that my second job out of college after six months of being furloughed, I was on LinkedIn. And you know how you get the notification of so-and-so viewed your profile? Well, I clicked on it. I was like, oh, someone viewed my profile. And it was a senior interior designer at a company that was, I don’t know, about two and a half, three miles from where I was living. And I looked them up and I was like, oh, and I just messaged her. I was like, hey, saw that you viewed my profile.

Kate (14:45.333)
Yeah.

Jess Diamond (15:00.714)
are you hiring? And she responded back and was like, we are actually send your resume to this email and I got the job. It was really quick, really easy. And it was me just being like, oh, this person was stalking me and I’m going to call her out in a very professional way and jump on it, jump on this opportunity. And it worked out in my favor.

Kate (15:21.186)
Kudos to you, and that absolutely did pay off. And that’s the point of LinkedIn. People use LinkedIn to make hiring decisions and to expand their professional network. So don’t be afraid to shoot someone a message or a connection request, especially if you are looking for a job right now. The reality is that 85% of new jobs are landed through networking. And most of the time, if you apply for a job blindly without knowing anyone at the company, your application might

get ignored. And if you want the chances to go up that you’re going to get a response, that you’ll get an interview, that you’ll get hired, it really is worth your time to connect with people at the company who are making the hiring decisions on LinkedIn. If you have their email address, you can shoot them an email as well. But doing exactly what you did, Jess, reaching out, taking advantage of that opportunity and trying to form a connection does get you a foot in the door.

Jess Diamond (16:16.158)
Yeah, that statistic baffles me 85%. Like that’s, that’s a big number. It’s like everyone listening right now, you better get your networking pants on and go connect with people and look into the industry and act upon the connections in the industry, follow up with people, get your name out, get it familiarized and ask for what you want. My mantra this year has been, if you don’t ask the answers, no, and that applies to literally everything you can think of.

All right, so.

Kate (16:46.13)
love that especially in your career. Like you can’t what you can’t get what you want if you don’t ask for it. And that’s so applicable to landing a new job, or really any kind of career advancement, like don’t keep your career goals a secret. Share them with the world. I have clients who are looking for new jobs, but it’s this like secret, they don’t want to tell anyone that they’re looking for a new job. But the truth is you need to tap into your network and leverage who you have and those connections that you’ve already built.

both personally and professionally with friends, with family, with former coworkers, people you went to college with, leverage those connections, ask if their company is hiring, ask them is there anyone you think I should be talking to or anyone you wanna introduce me to, and just get that going, get that, start that conversation because when you tap into your network, you can ask those questions and you can get some yeses.

Jess Diamond (17:37.366)
Yeah, and it’s not even just every time, like my example, if you have to ask someone for a job, is you can come from a place of, I just want to connect. I wanna ask you about your job. I wanna ask about the industry that you’re in, or if you have any pointers for someone that’s starting out and just opening the door to a conversation, rather than me being very ballsy and getting straight to the point, which there’s also nothing wrong with doing it that way as well.

But I want to move on to talking about a cover letter, because usually with resumes comes a cover letter. So is there a process or strategy you take your clients through with creating a good cover letter?

Kate (18:15.706)
Oh, cover letters. They are such a necessary evil. I feel like they should be obsolete at this point. However, companies still ask for them and you should still include a cover letter. The biggest mistake I see when it comes to cover letters is I see people just reiterating their resume in cover letter format, like in paragraph format. And if you do that, then what’s the point of even having a cover letter? So instead, what I would encourage you to do

the top two situations, stories, achievements, or examples from your career and write your cover letter about them. And explain two stories that really showcase the kind of employee you’re going to be, what your passions are, what your values are, what you’re capable of, how great you are, how skilled you are, how talented you are. Use it as almost a reason to brag on yourself, but do it via stories.

So instead of just reiterating your resume and saying, here’s what I’ve done, here’s my current position, these are my skills, you can say, hey, I’m a product manager and I’m really passionate about client work, but also the technical aspect. Here’s a project I worked on in my last role as product manager that showcases how great I am at the client facing work, and then tell the story.

By giving those examples, again, you’re illustrating and creating a narrative about the kind of employee you’re gonna be and what you’re going to bring to their organization. So cover letter is for telling stories and giving examples.

Jess Diamond (19:48.714)
and for bragging about yourself.

Kate (19:50.974)
brag on yourself, toot your own horn.

Jess Diamond (19:53.474)
Yeah. Okay. So now you’ve sent your resume in and your cover letter and you made it to the job interview. How can someone best prepare for the interview outside of researching the company? You’ve mentioned jargon. So outside of using the jargon that they have on their websites, but possibly a mental preparation or anything to get the jitters out. And then once they’re there, what should they do to help them move on in the company’s process?

Kate (20:20.714)
First part of preparing for an interview is having your elevator pitch ready. And I don’t like the word elevator pitch because we’re never in elevators giving a pitch anymore, but you really do need a 60 to 90 second pitch of who you are and why you applied for this position. Because the first question that any interviewer is gonna ask you is, okay, Jess, tell me a little bit about yourself. Or Jess, what made you wanna apply for this role? Or Jess, what would you bring to our company?

And for any of those questions, you need a 60 to 90 second story or pitch of who you are and why you’re there. And this pitch needs to be crafted in advance, practiced in the mirror, perhaps even run it by your friend or your family member or your partner, and really just like have it ready to go. It shouldn’t be memorized like a script, but it should roll off your tongue.

That’s gonna build a lot of confidence in yourself because you know with 100% certainty that you’re gonna be able to answer that first question confidently. But it also allows you to, again, start crafting that narrative of who you are. And the pitch should include a couple of things. I always suggest starting with your career journey. How did you end up where you are now? What are the key points that led to where you are now? And how does that inform where you wanna go? Next, talking about

what you would bring to this opportunity? What either skills or experience are like the main points that highlight why you would be a good fit for this role? And then why would the company benefit from having you? Do you have a positive attitude? Are you somebody who’s really great at communicating with people from a wide variety of backgrounds? What is something about you that you would bring to the table that would make the company lucky to have you? And if you can just kind of work through those bullet points and sum it up in 60 to 90 seconds.

and practice it, you’re gonna set the interview off on the right tone, you’re gonna start strong, you’re gonna lay the foundation for just like confidence for the rest of the interview. So that’s a really great starting point. Beyond that.

Jess Diamond (22:28.234)
Yeah, that’s a perfect starting point.

Kate (22:31.946)
Beyond that, what I suggest is again, studying the job description. And the most important points of the job description are gonna be the top five bullet points. So I would say really look at those top five bullet points and be prepared to talk about each of those five. If you have an example from your past work experience that illustrates or demonstrates that you’re capable of those job functions, be ready to tell those. So again, you wanna have like little mini stories

many examples that show that you’ve been in situations and you’re capable of doing that. So have those little mini stories ready to go. Practice telling them, again, with a friend or a family member or someone you trust, and practice it so that you’re not caught off guard. I also recommend connecting with a hiring manager on LinkedIn if you haven’t already. In some cases, you might already be, but find them on LinkedIn. See if you can learn anything about them.

You can ask them about their experience at the company. You can say, I see you’ve been there for four years. Can you tell me what you like most about it? And then finally, have some really great questions ready when they say, do you have any questions for us? Never say no. You always wanna have questions ready to ask them, but have some clever questions that are gonna make you stand out. And one of my favorite tips for doing this is Google the company.

And then in Google, you can go over to the news tab. So there’s like search images, news. If you go to the news story, if it’s a big company, you can see what the media is saying about them. What’s been going on in that company? What are journalists saying? What have they been up to? If you can say, hey, I read this about your company and I heard that recently you blank. Can you tell me about how my job would be affected by this?

or something along those lines, where you show that you’ve done your research or you’ve done your homework, that really impresses interviewers. But other great questions that you can ask are, how will my success be measured in this role? Who will I report to on a day-to-day basis, and how will they measure my success? How does this job contribute to the company’s overall goals? How are you different than the competition?

Kate (24:55.714)
How are you different from other companies who are doing blank in this industry? So asking some clever questions so that they can see that you genuinely are interested and enthusiastic about the company.

Jess Diamond (25:07.902)
Yeah, I like the never say no about a question because it just reminds me of that you should never say that you don’t have any weaknesses, but also that your weaknesses should really highlight your strengths. Can you give some examples as to what that would look like?

Kate (25:21.698)
Sure, and it’s inevitable. You’re at some point gonna get a question about your weaknesses. And one thing that I always recommend is ask people who know you well, what do you think is a misconception that people have about me? Because that’s gonna give you a clue into what some good answers might be. Because you’re not asking them your weakness. You’re saying, what’s a misconception about me? And then when they give you that misconception, you can really analyze, is that true or is that just something that people think about me?

and come up with a clever way to put a spin on it. So I’ll give you a recent client example of this. We were preparing for an interview and crafting her answer to this question about weaknesses. And she said, people always have this misconception about me that I just sit back on the sidelines and I observe and I won’t take initiative and I won’t step up as a leader and I just sit on the sidelines and watch. And while that might appear true,

Really, I’m just someone who’s an analytical thinker. And I like to soak it all in and be 100% confident that I’m making the right decision before I step up and I speak and I show initiative. And I said, okay, that’s a really good one because you can craft this into a perfect response to interview questions. And she did. And ultimately what she came up with is that her weakness.

is that sometimes it can appear as though she’s sitting on the sidelines and not taking initiative. But really, she’s a great observer and an analytical thinker. And she’s working on speaking up more so people know that she’s invested and she cares. And it’s something she is actively aware of and working on, which is an important piece of the question about weaknesses is that you’re self-aware and you’re working on it and you’re taking ownership. And this is how I overcome it.

to show that you do have that level of self-awareness and you are willing to learn and grow, but also being humble enough to say, I’m aware that this is here and this is what I’m doing about it. So I thought that was a really great example of how to answer that question.

Jess Diamond (27:29.346)
Yeah, that was a perfect example. Okay, so now you have the job, well, you have the job that you want with a competitive salary and actually, I wanna scoot back one. So you’re in the final stages of the interview process and the time comes to talk about pay and benefits. How can someone work to negotiate their salary and benefits and kind of hush that fear side of their brain of they’re going to lose the job if they ask for too much?

Kate (27:58.722)
So to begin, do some job market research where you actually get online and you start looking at what is the average salary or average rate for the positions and the roles that you’re applying for, and also take into consideration where you live. So you can find all over the internet, whether it’s on Glassdoor, even on the government website, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, you can find all sorts of information about average salaries.

They’re all gonna be slightly different, but it can give you a really good ballpark range. So that’s gonna help you kind of estimate what a good salary for you is going to be based on the position and where you live and your experience level. Once you’ve identified what that is, you wanna compare it to what your offer is. And I always encourage everyone to negotiate, everyone. No matter where you are in your career, it’s always worth negotiating your salary. Because like you said,

You can’t get more if you don’t ask for it. You have to ask for it or the answer is gonna be no. And I think one thing to kind of like hush that voice that says don’t ask for more, you can’t do it. I mean, the worst they can say is no. These hiring managers are so used to people negotiating salary. They think nothing of it. This is so, so common. So even if you are young, even if you are 22 and you’re fresh out of college.

You know, it is so common to negotiate salary. It’s just a standard part of the process and they’re not even gonna bat an eye. Once you know kind of what that range is that’s appropriate, make sure you have a specific range or number in mind. You don’t wanna go in and just say, I think I should make more money. You need to actually say, I want to make this much. And I always suggest having a little bit of a range, a buffer, and it can be slightly above where you think you actually wanna be.

because they’re likely gonna come back with a counter offer. That’s most commonly what I see is that they come back and they say, oh, we can’t go quite that high, but how about this? So, you know, the range that you’re negotiating should be slightly above maybe where you reasonably want to be. And then you wanna build your case. You wanna have either an explanation or a justification for why you think you deserve whatever that higher salary range is.

Kate (30:18.706)
Now, one example is if you live in a city where the cost of living is higher than the national average, let’s say that you live in Washington, DC or San Francisco or San Diego, you should probably be paid more than somebody who lives in Des Moines, Iowa or Nebraska, right? Just depending on what the national average is.

So you wanna make sure that they’re not low-balling you, that they’re not paying you something that is the national average when really you live in a more expensive city. That’s one way you can kinda justify your case. But you also wanna think through what are some of the key points from your experience that you’re bringing to the table that they’re not finding in other candidates? What is a project that you’ve worked on or a job that you’ve held or a position that you’ve been a part of where you’ve really brought something extra special to the table?

And how are you gonna contribute that to the organization? Because ultimately everyone’s always thinking, what’s in it for me? So if they’re gonna pay you more money, like what’s in it for them? What are you gonna do for them that’s gonna show them that you deserve to make that higher salary? So you do need to like justify your case and have an explanation and back up why you think you deserve to be paid that much. And again, like brag about your accomplishments and what you are bringing to the table. And from there, like anticipate objections.

They might say like, okay, this sounds reasonable. I’m gonna take it to HR and see if I can get it approved. They might say, absolutely not, no. Or they might say, okay, we might have some wiggle room. Let me come back and see. There might be a counter offer. So just anticipate any answer. Just know that it could go any of those ways and that is normal and that is fine. They usually won’t give you an answer right there on the spot, but it’s still worth making your case.

And then my final tip, my last suggestion is demonstrate your future value and future commitment to the company. So if this is a company that you are really excited about and you can see yourself staying there for many, many years, demonstrate that excitement and that commitment and that level of loyalty and say, this is an ideal company. I really want to be here long-term. I would really be excited about, you know, progressing my career here and seeing where this can, where I can be here in 10 years and show that.

Kate (32:35.542)
future value to show how invested you are. And that’ll also compel them to perhaps want to bump up your salary a little bit. Those are the basics of a salary negotiation in as short as I can.

Jess Diamond (32:44.222)
Yeah.

Jess Diamond (32:50.202)
Yeah, that was great. I would even say as you were talking that this a lot of these taxes could be applied to an in-house raise. Like if you’re going shooting for a different position or a higher salary negotiation at a job you already work at, you can use these tactics. Where’s the proof? Why do you deserve higher pay? Where are you going to give the company in return and start to really think about it that way and that it’s not just

you applying to a new job, this can be an in-house move. And even want to add to it of negotiations I’ve personally been able to do when I had my corporate job was I was able, I was hourly. So I was able to ask for a higher hourly rage as long as because I would say I’m not going to be on your health care plan. So they’re not paying more for me to be on their plan because I was still under 26 and able to be on my mom’s that that.

also helped me be able to negotiate. It’s like, you’re saving money here, so you can give me a little bit more money here. And every time it worked out in my favor. So I think like thinking a little bit more outside of the box too of where are you saving your company’s ass in a couple of different aspects and how that at the end of the day is going to save them money even if they’re paying you a little bit more to do so. Yeah.

Kate (34:07.434)
That’s a really good point. And I love the idea of like being creative with your negotiation. You don’t have to just negotiate like your salary compensation dollar number. There’s other things that you can negotiate as well. You can negotiate like a flexible working schedule. You can negotiate your PTO, stock options. If you’re gonna be moving for the job, definitely relocation assistance. And even reimbursements for some things that sound kind of crazy.

but like your cell phone, your wifi. I even know of large companies that give like grocery reimbursements, childcare reimbursements, gem membership reimbursements. So you’re gonna have to review the benefits package as a whole, but there’s definitely some ways that you can get creative about negotiating that don’t have to be just your salary dollar.

Jess Diamond (34:59.082)
love that you brought that part up too, because I’ve helped clients with what is the PTO you’re looking for? Is there wiggle room? Can you ask for more if it’s under what you’re looking for, but the pay is average rather than high and they’re not budging on it. So I’m so glad you brought that part up. So now let’s say you got the job, you have the competitive salary, you have great benefits. How would you guide someone towards finding a mentor in their field? And then what is the importance of finding a good mentor?

Kate (35:31.658)
Great question. And this is something that I think within your first 90 days of the company, you can kind of start to investigate and explore. And first off, be an observer and really notice the people around you, your colleagues, who either in your department or on your team, or even just somebody that you meet that might be in a different department or different team, do you respect, that you’ve observed and you can see, they understand, they get this, they’re being successful.

So in those first 90 days, just start to identify who some of those people might be and have those in the back of your mind. And then as you continue progressing at your career at that company, start to put together either Zoom chats or maybe meet for lunch, say, can I borrow 20 minutes of your time to just pick your brain, really like low stakes, chill conversations where you sit down with them and you start again, picking their brain, asking them questions.

How did you first get started at this company or in your specific role? What advice would you give to somebody who just got started? What do you wish you knew when you first got started that you know now? Are there any organizations or professional associations that you think I should join? Are there any opportunities that I might not know about that you think I should consider? How do you stay up to date on current industry trends or current events going on in the field?

So really just having some clever questions to ask them. And I always suggest like open-ended questions. Ask them how they got to where they are now and get a feel for if you’re developing rapport with them or not. Of course, when you have a mentor, you want it to be a good connection. You wanna have that rapport. But by having some of those conversations and feeling people out and saying like, who are you vibing with and continuing to do this consistently, you’re gonna identify at least one, if not more people.

that will become those informal mentors to you. And it’s just about continuing the relationship, showing appreciation, showing your gratitude for their time, saying this was so helpful and valuable to me. Can we do this again in a month? Or can we do this again next quarter, just so I can continue to learn from you and grow and improve my own skillset? And by doing that, you’re learning from somebody who’s further along in their career than you are. And…

Kate (37:55.07)
I think really learning from somebody who’s already been there and already done it, I mean, that’s what mentorship is all about is like, so you can learn and grow and have somebody to kind of model your own career after you can learn different leadership styles and how to exude them and how to display those. You can learn from different perspectives. I like having a few different mentors so you can have different points of view, but really learning and growing to develop your own skill set is what having a mentor is all about. And then when you get to that point.

Be willing to help somebody else on their journey to be willing to be somebody else’s mentor the same way that someone else was for you.

Jess Diamond (38:32.018)
Yeah, and there’s always going to be a second grader to your third grader. And sometimes you’re the second grader and you become a third grader. So it’s like an even balance of like a texan balance kind of situation. But as you continue to search for your mentors and connect with those people and go based off of that connection and having open lines of communication, someone that you feel you could trust and come to and turn to if you’re struggling with your career or you’re wanting to improve in some other area.

working to build that connection within that company is just so important for your own professional development, either if you’re staying with that company long term or if you get a different offer somewhere else that’s better or a complete 180 of your career entirely. So on the topic of professional development, I want to talk about like how can you or how can someone in their 20s make sure that their employer is taking notice of

their growth so that they know they’re working towards a higher pay, a higher position, just like leveling up in their career and that they know it’s not going unnoticed. So they’re making strides to make sure their employer is keeping eyes and being like, oh, they are doing a great job. So when the annual review comes around, you don’t have to provide all the proof. They’ve already seen a lot of the proof, even though you should still keep a running track record of all the proof you’ve done and all the work that you’ve done.

and improvements you’ve made in yourself and in the employment industry. But I’ll let you talk. So what can you do to make sure your employer is taking notice of your professional development?

Kate (40:10.454)
First off, be proactive about seeking out professional development opportunities. Ask your direct supervisor, are there any conferences, workshops, associations, or professional development opportunities that I should pursue? And ask them. That alone will show them that you’re excited to grow and you’re excited to learn more. You can also ask the same question to those people that you’ve identified as mentors, formal or informal at your company.

Depending on where you work, some organizations are really, really good about providing professional development opportunities for their employees and even mentorship opportunities as well. But other companies, you do need to be more proactive about seeking them out. But regardless, ask your manager explicitly, what professional development opportunities should I be doing? And then when you sign up for one, let them know, hey, I signed up for this, or I attended this last night.

If you’re having regular meetings or regular check-ins with your supervisor, that should be something that you can slip into the conversation. And then just like you alluded to, I always recommend keeping like a running list. So this can be like a Google Doc or it can be like a Word document on your computer, but just like a running list of what you’ve done this year in your career, whether that’s projects that you’ve completed, professional development opportunities that you’ve done, networking, conferences.

connections made, whatever it is, just have a running list of it. And from time to time, go over it with your manager. If you’re meeting with your manager regularly, you can easily incorporate what you’ve been up to the last month in that conversation. You got to be vocal about it. People aren’t going to just spontaneously say, like, hey, Jess, what professional development opportunities have you been doing lately? But you can talk about it yourself when they say like…

How are you doing? How’s your week been going? You can talk about those opportunities, but having like a running log of that so that it’s all in one place and like a living document that you can update every week or every month is something that’s gonna help you build a case for yourself when it does come time for that annual review and you wanna negotiate for a higher salary in an internal position. You’re gonna have a running list of your accomplishments, projects you’ve completed, things that you’ve done.

Kate (42:29.278)
professional development so that you can make that case for yourself.

Jess Diamond (42:33.218)
Yeah, and I think it just comes to the underlying of the you can’t assume that they are taking notice you have to voice, you have to be vocal about it and voice what’s going on and keep the proof like have proof that you are doing these things and that you deserve a pay raise or a position change or something along those lines. You should never make an ass out of you and me. And I’ve said it in a communication episode of like you don’t.

even if it’s so blatantly obvious that you’re improving, you can never assume that the other person is seeing that because sometimes people are just so caught up in their own worlds that they’re not taking any notice and they don’t even think about taking notice. So you have to be your own advocate for anything, any change you wanna make in your life, let alone in your career.

Kate (43:20.802)
That’s exactly right. Like people aren’t mind readers. They don’t know what you’re thinking. Like you have to be direct. You have to be transparent. You have to advocate for yourself. You have to stick up for yourself. Vocalize what you’ve been working on. Take credit for the things that you’ve done well for the company. Like don’t just spontaneously think that somebody’s gonna say like, oh, just did a great job of this. You gotta take credit for it. You have to claim your achievements.

Jess Diamond (43:46.814)
Yeah. And so with the topic of achievements, I tell people all the time about how important setting goals are in regards to all aspects of their lives so that they have something that they’re working towards and not fall into this trap of living the same day over and over again. And I know we talked about setting like career goals in terms of your resume, in terms of applying for jobs, but what are some good goals someone can set when wanting to advance their career either in the same company or to move into a different position at a different company?

Kate (44:18.474)
Yeah, I think that this is such a personalized question that’s gonna change for everyone. However, I’m a big fan of the 12 week year. I don’t know if you’ve read that book or not, but yeah, breaking your goal.

Jess Diamond (44:29.118)
I haven’t, but I apply it to my own mentality in a like just by quarterly basis of this is what I want to achieve this quarter, business-wise, life-wise, travel-wise. And I’ve told other people, like you need to chunk up the year so that you’re working towards things in smaller increments, but I’ll let you continue of the 12 week year.

Kate (44:50.394)
Exactly. So I’m a big fan of the 12 week year, because so often you might not know where you want your career to be in 10 years. Like you were doing interior design just a few years ago, and now you’re a coach with your own business. So you might not know where you want to be in 10 years. But if you can chunk down the next 12 weeks, and say what are my goals for the next 12 weeks that I want to work towards and pick like a few I would say between three and five.

targets that you wanna hit in 12 weeks related to your career. And make them as specific as possible. You know, if you want to improve your communication skills in meetings, if you want to finish a specific project that you’ve been working on and you wanna wrap up, if you want positive client feedback on X, like set three to five goals and then create a plan for how am I going to achieve these goals? What are the daily habits that I need to be doing?

Every single day, do I need to be checking in with my manager every day or every week? Do I need to be emailing with XYZ client every day? Whatever they are, break them down into chunks so that you can set yourself up for success to meet them. Another good thing that you can do is just seek out feedback in terms of reaching your career goals, asking your manager or even people on your team, what’s an area where you think I can improve? What’s something you think I can be doing better?

Seeking out feedback is like one of the best things that you can do and then taking that feedback and actually implementing it Not just saying like okay that sounds nice but doing something about it and then Finding a coach and I know that’s easy for us to say because we’re coaches But like if you don’t have that manager or mentor support within your own company It’s well worth your time to look for a career coach a life coach

somebody who can like give you some accountability, some support, some third party honest feedback, challenge your perspective, push you so you can grow. And usually a lot of coaches will do that in a 12 week timeframe as well. But just having that support from somebody, asking them feedback and asking them how you can grow and then chunking it down into like daily and weekly habits.

Jess Diamond (47:11.646)
Yeah, I mean, that’s I mentioned it in one of the earlier episodes of this is being in your 20s. This is one of the first times that you are without mentors unless your job is giving you someone like you have to go out and find it for yourself and you shouldn’t be without someone that is showing you the road that is guiding you through this process that is holding you accountable that is there to hold your hand when you feel like running away and it’s like, no, it’s okay. Stay right here. This is the stuff we’re going to take together. So yeah, it is.

If your mentor doesn’t just have to come from your career, if anything it should be from a life coach, a career coach or a nutrition coach or whatever aspect you want to improve about yourself, go seek out those resources. They are there. Coaching is a very new industry. It’s one of probably the newest professions that I can think of and do your research. It’s why I create, part of the reason why I created this podcast is so that I get the knowledge out there of what coaching is like. And it’s

guiding you through your own journey and advocating for you when you’re at a loss for words. And someone to like to speak up for you and give you the tools that you need to move forward. But I know when it comes to career in any form of career, there’s a lot of self-doubt that comes with it. A lot of imposter syndrome of I don’t even know what I’m doing. I don’t know why I’m here. I have no idea what’s going on. How do you help someone to feel more confident or to…

switch their mindset around that of like you do deserve to be here, you do know what you’re doing, and just anything along those lines.

Kate (48:47.07)
We all do something for the first time constantly. And whenever you’re new at something, it’s gonna feel different, it’s gonna feel scary simply because you’ve never done it before. And I think realizing and accepting that is an important part of conquering imposter syndrome. Because if you’re not feeling that way, then you’re probably not pushing yourself enough. If you’re not feeling a little out of your comfort zone every now and then, you’re probably playing it too safe.

So it’s a mindset shift, right? You need to accept that in order for me to accomplish great things, in order for me to grow, to learn, to have new opportunities, whether that’s in your career or your relationships or travel, it’s gonna feel uncomfortable sometimes. And if it doesn’t, then I’m playing it too safe and I’m not putting myself out there enough. And get comfortable being uncomfortable.

I know it sounds like a cliche, but like you need to feel that discomfort and to embrace it in order to keep growing as a person. That’s personally, professionally, financially, in your relationships, in your health, things are going to feel uncomfortable. And since I know you do a lot of health coaching as well, Jess, it’s like your first day in the gym when you started a new gym and you’re like, ah, what machines do I go on? What do I do? I don’t know how to use this. Where are the weights? Where’s the locker room? I feel like a fool, right?

Jess Diamond (50:06.721)
Yum.

Kate (50:10.651)
you’re not going to hit those fitness goals if you don’t show up on that first day and find out where the damn locker room is. So you got to embrace that discomfort and push past it and know that it’s the only way to grow and get used to that and tell yourself that over and over and over. I have to be uncomfortable if I’m going to grow and I’m going to feel like an imposter and that’s okay.

Jess Diamond (50:17.134)
I’m going to go to bed.

Kate (50:35.882)
and then telling yourself, this is how everybody feels all the time. Nobody knows what they’re doing.

Jess Diamond (50:40.482)
That’s what I was gonna say. I was gonna say it’s normal. Like, let’s normalize this feeling. It is okay. We are here for you, but don’t let it prevent you from even trying in the first place.

Kate (50:54.21)
Everyone is just faking it all the time. We’re all just doing the best we can. And I say this because I work with clients from like literally 20 to 60 years old. And it’s crazy, the women who I work with who are in their 50s, who are at that C-suite level, that say that they also struggle with imposter syndrome. And they’re like, you know, I’m in the C-suite, but I’m wondering like, when is somebody gonna figure out what a mess I am? So.

So this is something that like everybody struggles with, not just 20 somethings, and recognizing that this is something that everybody’s going through, and really it just means that I’m growing and pushing myself is an important mindset shift.

Jess Diamond (51:35.37)
Yeah, my coach always says new level, new devil. So even as a C-suite, you’re going to have different challenges and different insecurities that are going to come up and you’re going to have to look them straight in the eyes and find a way to overcome them, whether that is resourcing out, asking for help, or just facing it head on and learning from your mistakes as they come up.

Kate (51:58.41)
You can’t avoid them. You gotta learn from them. You gotta dive in, confront them. If you ignore them, they won’t go away.

Jess Diamond (52:06.11)
Yeah, they’ll just come up when you really can’t handle them. It’s like what I tell people of if you’re busy all the time, and you don’t give your body that time for a break, your body is going to give you a break when you have no control over it, whether that’s injury or sickness or pure exhaustion, where you need a nap because you can’t function as a human anymore. It’s like it’s it happens in everything. Like it’s you got to face your challenges head on and do something about it. Stop.

Kate (52:11.453)
Exactly.

Jess Diamond (52:34.262)
pushing it onto the back burner because it’s not gonna stay there forever.

Kate (52:39.006)
Agreed and kind of to your point, it just kind of reminded me one thing that I do with my clients is I always suggest that outside of their career or outside of their work, they have some sort of either like hobby or extracurricular that they’re working on that is totally different from what they do in their work. So that could be something related to your physical health, rock climbing, playing soccer, you know, going to the gym. It could be like a creative hobby, like photography or painting.

Or it could just be like even like reading, but some sort of hobby or extracurricular that you’re working towards. Because as a kid and then in high school and then even in college, we’re all part of like organizations or teams where we’re working towards something. And it’s fun and it’s rewarding and we get to push ourselves and learn and grow. And then you become an adult and all of a sudden it’s like.

you know, where’s my tennis team or where’s this group or where’s that? And really like being intentional about having some sort of extracurricular or hobby as an adult or something that you’re working on outside of your work is another great way to build that confidence in yourself and to kind of strengthen and enhance that mindset of like, yes, I can do hard things. Like if I can run a 5k on the weekends, then of course I can show up Monday and present during this meeting.

So continuing to try new things, push yourself, have fun, and do those hobbies outside of work, I think it’s just another way to kind of like reinforce that mindset of like, yeah, I can do difficult things.

Jess Diamond (54:18.25)
Yeah, it’s when the stakes aren’t as high or they don’t feel as high. So I love that. I never even thought about it like that, but that was such great insight to give. But I wanna thank you, Kate, for providing my listeners with some extremely valuable information. Everything you said, I was eating it up and I’m not even in a nine to five world. But you really gave a lot of good advice and guidance as to how…

they can uplevel their career. Where can people find you if they have additional questions or if they’re interested in working with you or following you on Insta, like what are all the places they can look you up?

Kate (54:57.726)
Yeah, thank you, Jess. I’m a life and career coach at Shattered Glass Coaching. My website is shatteredglasscoaching.com and on Instagram you can find me at shattered.glass.coaching. I do private coaching as well as group coaching and I work mostly with women but also I do have some male clients as well and I particularly work with job seekers, so people who are looking for new positions. So if you are looking for a new job and you don’t know what you should be doing to make your.

your job application stand out or what to do next, set up a free breakthrough session with me and we can talk.

Jess Diamond (55:32.426)
Right. And don’t worry, guys, Kate’s website and Instagram are all linked in the show notes so you can have direct access to getting in contact with her. And if you liked what you heard, please share it with friends and family. Tag me if you share it on social media at coach.justdiamond. But help me spread the word of this podcast and reach as many young professionals as I can so that they can get their shit together, gain their confidence and own their life.

And with that, I will be in your headphones again next week with a new episode of How to 20 something.